Cohabitating

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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby dad2grls » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Trevor wrote:But what was the key evidence? Seems a subpoena to the bank(s) to reveal joint accounts was required? Help us out here.


In the one case I found where spousal maintenance was reduced due to cohabitation, there was this:


The proof established that the petitioner has been living continually with one John Brookins at residences in Watervliet and Lansingburgh, since 1973. A lease was executed by her and Brookins as Mr. and Mrs. Kernan at the Watervliet residence. Their current landlord also testified that when they engaged his premises they introduced themselves to him as husband and wife. This arrangement apparently continued throughout this proceeding. At the last hearing it was verified through the surveillance of a private detective hired by the respondent, conceded by Brookins and finally admitted by petitioner herself, although she had denied it in her initial testimony. Thus, the factual elements required to invoke the applicable provisions of section 248 were clearly established.


It's not much but it's something I guess.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby TJinCA » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:12 pm

dad2grls wrote:In the cases I've read where cohabitation is successfully proven, it was done because sufficient evidence is provided that they are co-mingling their finances and sharing their living expenses.

Not sure if a PI could be of assistance there but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

From what I've read, being pregnant and living together would not be sufficient evidence in most courts.


I think you're right on this - the principle for the reduction (at least in CA) is reduced financial need by the supported spouse. No matter what else they're doing, if you can't prove that they've combined finances and reduced her individual need, you've got no argument for reduction or termination.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Havalu7 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:21 pm

The point is that it "cohabitation" was discovered and documented by a lease.

But how cool to say you had hired a PI. Ummmm didnt someone or two who were very wise say this would be a waste of money.

When the vets on the board contribute newbies it is almost 100% based on experience from being here so long and seeing these type of situations come up over and over.

But OP if you do hire one lets us inow what his or her cool PI super sleuth name is; like Nick Stealth or Jane Feltnotseen. I am sure a PI can be used in some cases but yours? Hmmm think you would be better served by somethng like say a birth certificate from any public records, or suponea the leases like suggested from the other posters research.

Edit: I see TJ's posted while I was writing. He also has a good point. Now Im confused again. Go for records and proof of reduced support, not that she is just shackin or making new humans.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Trevor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:26 pm

dad2grls wrote:In the one case I found where spousal maintenance was reduced due to cohabitation, there was this:
A lease was executed by her and Brookins as Mr. and Mrs. Kernan...they introduced themselves to him as husband and wife.

Thanks, d2g.

In this example, OP, consider the high evidentiary bar set by the court, and the ease with which a person can *not* do these things and still be on divorce welfare. Consider the cost to prove even this easy example. How many landlords would be willing to testify against a lessee, at some risk to his/her real estate and finances?

The cited case is one where the woman was either an idiot, or didn't care much about keeping the SS, though she enjoyed seemingly poking the eye of her x by forcing it to court when she laid out proof of her relationship with the guy.

My x cohabited for well over a year before marrying. I had no way to prove it, short of stealing their trash on garbage day and sorting through it (which is illegal and not recommended). So anytime this question comes up, I push for deets so that people understand the high bar and figure out how they can document it. But the answers are difficult to find.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Havalu7 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:30 pm

OP I wanted to go back and delete my post because it was kind of rambling, but Trevor got his in.

Hopefully had a little value. TJ and Trevor are spot on as always.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Minerva » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:25 pm

You better know what you're getting if you hire a PI. They're twice as expensive as attorney's and twice as worthless.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby mgtowthatish » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:57 am

Minerva wrote:You better know what you're getting if you hire a PI. They're twice as expensive as attorney's and twice as worthless.


I won't go into how much my attorney cost, but it was a fraction of what I paid my PI. The PI firm was well respected, and proved/testified about opportunity and inclination to have an affair. I live in one of the few fault states left.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby BartSimpson » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 am

All 51 jurisdictions are no-fault.

13 States have fault provisions for adultery, to limit alimony.
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