Settling Finances

Get financial tips on divorce and asset division including child support laws, property division, and divorce settlements.

Settling Finances

Unread postby hopeful dad » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:42 am

We have one outstanding issue before the court. I had discussed that in great detail in a couple of threads recently just around my last court date. BTW I am officially divorced now. Yeah Finally! after two long years. Atleast some relief there.

One of the bottlenecks in the financial settlement is monies around 140 K I have gifted to my folks back home during seven years of marriage. During the last court date, my attorney said it might be necessary to go to mediation as it provides ample time to settle all the matters which may not be possible to the court to decide in a hearing.

Even though I claim the money was given as a gift, as per the attorney some of these transactions are enormous - larger than paycheck! and hence questionable considering ex is claiming to be ignorant

She asked me if I can provide the documents/bills/receipts etc. in support of my explanation on how my parents utilized some of these funds. The idea is to chip everything that can be done as allowed by law and see we can argue on the rest of the money.

I wish I had all these records during the last court date, but regardless my effort in gathering all these documents is proving to be worthy.

Her claim is something along these lines:

Husband transferred 140K from XYZ bank account which I was not the US. He sent a significant portion of that money during the time land was purchased and building of the house at that land. Husband failed to disclose this, and he needs to reimburse the whole of 140 k

Let me subtract everything that I can which is not problematic transactions as per the law

1. The lawyer asks me, How much was pre-marital money in XYZ bank account?

Answer is 12 K., It is not community money. So that gets subtracted from 140 K

2. Was her name on the account? Was she aware when you were sending money?

The answer is her name was NOT on XYZ bank account. Was she aware? Yes, she knew I was sending money, but now she says no. That's alright. But there is one significant transaction she was certainly aware of which I can prove

In 2009 I transfered 23K to my dad in one transaction(I mean this is nothing considering that he emptied out his retirement savings to support my four years college back home and two years Master's in the US which is very very expensive for his income standards)

Due to limitation in XYZ account, I transferred from XYZ bank account to ABC account which was our joint account and wired the money from ABC account to my Dad's account.

As per the requirements of the law, she consented to giving that money. No? As per the lawyers I have spoken to, her name in the account is a consent. Now 23K is off the chart

3. In Mid 2012, a colleague at that time wanted to send some money to his relative back home immediately. I transferred 7.5K to his relative's account, and then within few days, my friend gave me that money back. I have statements to prove inflow and outflow. Ex is just looking at this transactions involving overseas transactions

So, that should bring down her claim by further 7.5k

4. Ex went to a graduate school in the US during the marriage. She had borrowed 6k of education loan from a bank back home. Her claim is that her mother is still paying the loan. As per the loan statement, I have obtained, her loan is paid off by my dad with the monies I have sent him. I have the statements to prove this

That brings down 6k further

5. I have sent 1K to ex 's bank account in home country one time

6. In 2013, I posted 2.5K to my dad's account during our first and the final family visit with the child. I don't have any bank account in my home country. All the funds were utilized for various reasons such as traveling locally, gifts, child's first birthday etc.

7. I have sent around 4 K during the later years of marriage which was used for various health reasons - my dad's hospitalization, hearing aids, Mom's surgery etc. There are lot of cash based transactions there

Now if I subtract 1 to 7 from 140 K, we end up with 84 K of community monies that was gifted. Hypothetically if court considers 84k questionable, and of community nature, then her share of this is only 42 K

Ex was very smart during the final 1.5 years of marriage. She was stashing all her income by making me pay all bills from my income. As per the law, the assets/debts during separation are split in half. Accordingly, STBX owes me 20 K of this community money and around 3K in automobiles - total of 23K

Now subtracting 23 K from 42 K that I owe, I end up owing her only 19 K.

I also have significant stocks and retirements worth around 60K. This should be straightforward to resolve.

Now there is a need for serious effort and resources to resolve this. The big problem here is the irrational belief of my ex. I do not know much about ex's new attorney, but she seems to be a reasonable woman who is dedicated to family law which is more important.

With all the documents that I collected in the past two months, I see the following as various options to settle this and would like to discuss the pros and cons of using each one

1. I propose ex directly. I lay this all out nicely and find out if her expectations can be any reasonable. This by far is the cheapest way(if she has any brains) considering what we have spent in litigation already. The only fear here is once she has access to all the documents, she can bake more stories for the trial. The cost involved here is zero

2. Arrange all the statements in order and send a proposal to OC with a magic word - this is for settlement purpose only and inviting OC to negotiate and come up with a reasonable offer. This approach may work if my ex is also convinced we can work directly to resolve instead of an expensive Mediation. This may cost me 1k to 1.5 k in attorney fees.

3. Financial Mediation - As per different lawyers I have spoken to regarding this including my own, the advantage of mediation is there is an ample time to discuss resolve which we may not have with the Judge. Even if we do not come to an agreement, we will know where we stand. But for me, this is far more expensive if STBX doesn't agree, we will have to leave it to judge anyway. Estimated cost for mediation is around 5K to 6K

4. Trial - Projected cost for trial 20k (Not sure how though considering we have settled on all the other issues). Best case scenario at trial is court may ask ex to pay 23k to me (from the assets and debts portion), and the court may not order me to pay anything from the monies I have gifted at all. In that case, I may recover my trial cost. But sure it is going to take a lot of toll on me. Worst case is if the court orders me to pay 42K, I may end up paying her 19K and losing 20 K on trial. She also may not be so inclined to go to trial if I offer something I can bite at a risk of losing at trial. We do not have much to fight for such as millions of dollars worth property. We will both lose significant money that can be used for the benefit of the child.

In fact, if there is one straight path to the trial, I am all for it and would rather like to leave everything to the court to decide. Apparently, as per the lawyers, the path seems to be convoluted and expensive

What are your thoughts on all this? What do you think is the best approach to settling this. Fortunately, we both have equal custody now. I have been in this for long and I would like to move beyond this and focus on raising our kid and better things life has to offer.
Moving forward with distress behind!
hopeful dad
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby hopeful dad » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:46 pm

I am sorry if this turned out to be a wall of text which may be the reason for not getting any responses. I just wanted to lay out everything in order to help you in advising me in the right direction.

The truth is, I am left with very limited resources after all these years of fighting. I am grateful to have equal time with my child and it was worth every penny. But still there is one issue that is hanging which has to be closed sooner than later

Now I am presented with few options, as described in OP, which is common to most of the divorces. Few here on this board have success with mediation, few going to trial etc.So I am seeking a collective opinion/thoughts which will help me to decide a path that gives a closure optimally.

Please take your time and read it whenever you have time and let me know your thoughts. Also please let me know if you need any clarification on any of the items in OP

Thanks
Moving forward with distress behind!
hopeful dad
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby lionel2013 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:23 pm

OP, I have great sympathy for your financial issues as one who's been cheated on in more than one respect and who has taken the shaft from a lying, cheating X. But what you are asking us here is to unravel a messy, entangled web of financial divisions, who did what and who deserves how much -- too much for those of us willing to help but otherwise not having boat loads of time to figure all this out. So my suggestion is, if you would like us to help you, trim your OP down to a few, essential issues and try again. As is it's too much for us to digest, sorry.
Whenever you think divorce is bad, remember there are worse things than divorce.
User avatar
lionel2013
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:29 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby hopeful dad » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:10 am

Then what would a Judge say who has only 15 minutes at his disposal, if I want the court to decide everything. I am beginning to understand what the court's dilemma will be.
Last edited by hopeful dad on Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Moving forward with distress behind!
hopeful dad
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:45 am

My guess is split it down the middle would be a likely outcome.
User avatar
Fatheroffour
Moderator
 
Posts: 35994
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Top of the world

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby hopeful dad » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:48 pm

What is the middle point? It depends on whom you ask.

1. As per ex the middle point is
50K (-40k, 140 K) - 40K is the community monies she was in possession with during separation and 140 K (as she claims)is the community money gifted by me to parents. We owe each other half of it, so I end up giving her 50K

2. As per me, the middle point is
-20K (-40K, 0 K) - 140K that she is claiming should be treated as gift, so I owe her nothing, she still owes 20K from 40K, and hence in this scenario she ends up owing me 20k

3. Applying strictly, the letter of law (taking point 1 to 7 from OP into consideration), lawyers or mediator may say, middle point is
22K (-40K, 84K) - 20K is what she owes me, 84 K of the gift is questionable, so I have to give her half of it which is 42K, so I may be forced to give her 22K in the end

Now what is the forum/venue that we should pick to settle this? Whether it is:

a. Directly work with ex (not sure it will work)
b. Settlement through attorneys
c. Financial mediation
d. Trial

I need to look at cost involved in each of the above options vs the total money we are trying to settle

This was the gist of my OP. Hope I shortened it enough to make it easier for you to provide more inputs

Thanks
Moving forward with distress behind!
hopeful dad
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:59 pm

With NJ's blessing at the time, and per our culture's custom, $140K was gifted by our marriage to husband's parents.

For NJ to change her mind at this time is nothing more than woman's prerogative - pure convenience.

The money in question is gone. It cannot be retrieved. She should've never agreed to gifting it in the first place.

Tom
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
Tom Kirkpatrick
5K+ Posts
 
Posts: 7039
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby afc » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:05 pm

It's a lot of he/she said with the "did she know"

Your honor, stbxh has been giving his parents money in an attempt to stash it away from the wife. He and his family can produce no receipts or paper trail of the supposedly urgent bills this money went to. How are we to know that after the divorce is final, this money won't be "gifted" back to hopefuldad by his family?
afc
5K+ Posts
 
Posts: 7078
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:22 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby hopeful dad » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:05 pm

If that was my intent - to stash money before divorce, why would I do most of that years before separation and then have a child with her?
Moving forward with distress behind!
hopeful dad
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 pm

Re: Settling Finances

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:38 pm

I don't know. Why did you?
User avatar
Fatheroffour
Moderator
 
Posts: 35994
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Top of the world

Next

Return to Finances & Divorce Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tom Kirkpatrick and 5 guests