Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Destiny » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:57 am

Broken Machine wrote:Hello,

This is my first post here though I have been lurking for a while. I am going through a divorce now and had the same sort of internal struggle you are having in regards to child support. I agree with a lot, if not all, of your points. The amount of money I spend for child support is not close to what I spend on my children in a month while in one household. But I had to come to some sort of acceptance of it. Yes, that meant that I had to accept that it is "for the kids". STBX still has to shop for groceries and whatnot. There is no way I can track or verify that the child support is spent solely on the children. I basically remember a saying "Render onto Caesar what is Caesar's" and let it be at that.

If anything, in the eyes of the court, I am providing for my children. I also understand that the intent is to provide a sort of balance in the quality of life for the children across both homes. Does it really do this? I'm not sure. Is this fair? No...life isn't fair. But I'll tell you what really pisses me off is that the STBX has some sort of "entitlement" to my military retirement. I was the one that signed on the dotted line and gave a blank check to my country. And it pisses me off that I have to pay her "spousal support" or "maintenance" just because she parked her < hindquarters > in my house for ten years. But I still have to do these things. It all sucks, it pisses me off, but I can't let that eat away at me. Trying to better deal with my own negativity is one way on how I am trying to improve myself.

How you come to your own acceptance of child support will depend on you. But you did ask how we deal with it and what I said above is how I dealt with mine. It may sound defeatist, but it is what it is. At least right now, I have 50/50 time with my kids though under temporary orders while this divorce process goes on. Hopefully you too have, or are going to have, 50/50 time. Not only because that is what is right, but also it will decrease the amount of child support you have to "render".



It sounds like you're going through the divorce process still, just like me - and you have already made peace with child support. Good for you, it's certainly healthier emotionally to not have to carry around all this anger and this feeling of helplessness and injustice.

It is disheartening to me, although I should have expected it - that most of the answers I get on this and other forums are along the lines of - 'you can't do anything about it, it sucks but that's how it is', 'you just have to accept it'. I feel like I'm talking to a lot of men who have been ground down by the system, and men are shamed into even talking about it. Or even worse I hear - 'there is no problem', or 'be a man and shut up about it and provide for your kids' - as if even bringing up the very apparent problems in the system somehow equates to 'not providing for your kids'.

I have received a PM from a forum member who tells me - he spends 30% of his take home pay in child support, 20% in alimony, and average of 25% on 'child expenses' - that's 75% of his take home pay! This man is living hand to mouth - and he has many more years of this situation to look forward to. There is a problem, I don't care what anybody says and I will make it a personal cause to fight for change - just as soon after I am done fighting for my right to see my kids 50% of the time, which is the most important thing on my plate right now.

I hear you though, and I appreciate the comments. Obviously some amount of acceptance and stoicism is necessary to come to peace with this situation.

There is also a part of me that is a fighter, I don't want to just merely accept this situation, I want to become better than I ever have - in terms of being a father, being a virtuous human being - and also financially. I just have to figure that part of it out.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby whatever_works » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:08 pm

Destiny wrote:There is a problem, I don't care what anybody says and I will make it a personal cause to fight for change - just as soon after I am done fighting for my right to see my kids 50% of the time, which is the most important thing on my plate right now.


Amen brother! I support you and your cause fully. It is this money that women know about. They know how easy it is for them to get it. And they are fully willing to tell a few lies for it.

There is a whole divorce "industry" that is dependent on the willingness of women to lie and manipulate for this money. It doesn't matter if our kids pay the price.

There is a Scandinavian country (I think Sweden) where the child support is decided by a formula with no leeway for the judges. Divorces in that country are completed by sending a postcard and cost a postage stamp!
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:13 pm

We see complaints about 'the system' daily. Hourly. Its not really the system that is the problem. Its not the laws that are unfair. There is no law preventing any judge in my state , every judge in my state, from ordering 50/50 time share and deviations from the state formula that reflect such a time share.

Its the culture in which we live.

I will make it a personal cause to fight for change


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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby afc » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:14 pm

And those Scandinavian countries can do it that way because things like insurance, education, child care are handled by the state.

Can't argue over who pays for medical expenses and co pays when the state covers it. Can't argue about private school vs public when there are very little private schools. Can't argue about child care when it is heavily subsidized. Can't even argue about religious upbringing when the whole country is pretty much secular and you would be laughed out of court if you bring it up.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby whatever_works » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:23 pm

afc wrote:And those Scandinavian countries can do it that way because things like insurance, education, child care are handled by the state.


All those problems you outlined are problems of our own making. I am not about to argue in favor of single payer health system. All I am saying is that if we decide that both parents get equal time with the kids and the state formula decides who pays what in CS, a good percentage of the cases would go away.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Broken Machine » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:33 pm

[quote="Destiny]
It sounds like you're going through the divorce process still, just like me - and you have already made peace with child support. Good for you, it's certainly healthier emotionally to not have to carry around all this anger and this feeling of helplessness and injustice.

It is disheartening to me, although I should have expected it - that most of the answers I get on this and other forums are along the lines of - 'you can't do anything about it, it sucks but that's how it is', 'you just have to accept it'. I feel like I'm talking to a lot of men who have been ground down by the system, and men are shamed into even talking about it. Or even worse I hear - 'there is no problem', or 'be a man and shut up about it and provide for your kids' - as if even bringing up the very apparent problems in the system somehow equates to 'not providing for your kids'.

I have received a PM from a forum member who tells me - he spends 30% of his take home pay in child support, 20% in alimony, and average of 25% on 'child expenses' - that's 75% of his take home pay! This man is living hand to mouth - and he has many more years of this situation to look forward to. There is a problem, I don't care what anybody says and I will make it a personal cause to fight for change - just as soon after I am done fighting for my right to see my kids 50% of the time, which is the most important thing on my plate right now.

I hear you though, and I appreciate the comments. Obviously some amount of acceptance and stoicism is necessary to come to peace with this situation.

There is also a part of me that is a fighter, I don't want to just merely accept this situation, I want to become better than I ever have - in terms of being a father, being a virtuous human being - and also financially. I just have to figure that part of it out.[/quote]

I completely hear you. It is disheartening to me as well. It all feels like a big cash game that favors women. Which might explain a statistic that I read a while ago that more women file for divorce than men. Well yeah...it's a great cash cow for them. I mean my divorce goes down right as I am eligible to receive military retirement. THAT is something I want to be a fighter to change. Child support, may need some tweaking. Spousal support also needs to go away. If someone wants to leave, they better learn to stand on their own two feet like any other adult.

So yes, I hear you and I certainly won't be one of the guys to tell you to "suck it up" or "shut up and color". You need to vent, vent away. As long as you still do what is right, and I'm sure you will.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:52 pm

Spousal support also needs to go away. If someone wants to leave, they better learn to stand on their own two feet like any other adult.


What about if one spouse wants to stay?
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Broken Machine » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Not to sound religious, but divorce should only happen under infidelity, abandonment, abuse, or neglect. If a divorce is under those conditions, the guilty party should be on the hook for those things. But for these "no fault" divorces, if a spouse wants to leave, they should not be asking for monetary support from the spouse they are leaving. This is just my opinion though.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby Beatandtired » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:04 am

OP,

I agree with you on almost every point.

I'm nearly three years into my divorce.

My ex made as much as $108,000 a year five years ago. We were together 14 years. Some years she made more, some years I made more. She quit working a year before she divorced me. That year I grossed $175,000.

The courts did not care about the past. The courts did not care that there was a year she made $80,000 and I made $25,000.

All they cared about was that last year when I grossed $175,000 and she sat by the pool eating bon bons while searching the dating websites looking for my replacement.

I made all the stupid mistakes, moved out when she kicked me out, agreed to my attorney suggesting a "Temporary" custody order of me having the kids on the weekends. Temporary became a year and a half and I was nearly $30,000 behind in child support. I came down with Atrial fibrillation and cardiomyopathy and spent a summer in the hospital and the court didn't care. I said to myself "screw it" and quit paying for four months and was sent to jail, lost my drivers license, lost my business license, I will not be able to renew my passport.

I've been paying the bare minimum in child support to stay out of jail, but I have a ton of debt and now a lien on my house.

The ex gets $700 a month in food stamps, has medicaid for herself and the children, lives in a friends house for free, my old BMW she drives was paid off long ago.

I've got a mortgage on a house with a lien on it, I'm paying off my car that's underwater. I pay full price as a self employed person for healthcare, I blew through every penny I had on attorneys and health care with nearly $500 in monthly prescription pills to keep my heart ticking.

Ex has not worked in two years but is always looking for childcare so she can do whatever single women do.

I was finally able to get 50/50 custody, but court has pushed back my requests to modify child support a couple times.

My family and I used to stay in suites and vacation at resorts. Now my daughters and I vacation in a cargo van and go camping like gypsies.

I fail how to see that this is my fault.
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Re: Child support - how to deal, how to rise above it

Unread postby IrishGuy55555 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:52 pm

If it makes you feel any better I have the reverse situation. My ex moved two states away and I have full physical custody of my son. My ex comes to town to see him about every 5-6 months for a few hours over a weekend (she hasn’t had an overnight visit with him since she moved away in 2012). The upside is I have a great relationship with my son. The downside is his relationship with his mom is more like an aunt you see a couple times a year – not the mother/son relationship they used to have.

As far as finances I pay alimony that is about equal to my mortgage and that is also inclusive of child support. The only financial responsibility she has is one-third medical (not premiums, just out of pocket expenses which are sizable since my son has Type 1 diabetes).

I went to court to reduce or eliminate alimony (my ex has lived rent-free with her boyfriend since leaving in 2012) and instead our judge decides to give my ex a cost of living increase so I end up paying more alimony.

I can tell you that raising a kid alone with no financial help is expensive, especially with high medical costs and essentially paying two mortgages with alimony payments. I live pretty frugally but I still ended up having to file bankruptcy a few months ago which I would never have seen myself doing.

My son will be living at home next year when he starts college. I’ll be covering everything I do now for him (house, food, medical premiums, insulin, etc.) only my ex will no longer have to pay a third of his medical. But here is the kicker: When my son turns eighteen next year he is no longer my legal responsibility in the eyes of the court. I have no doubt that my ex will take me back to court and ask that alimony be increased by the amount that was offset for child support, and I also have no doubt our judge will grant it. So I’ll be covering all of my son’s medical and will also end up paying hundreds more in alimony.

So yes – the system is pretty messed up for dads regardless of how much time we have with our kids. I can’t imagine that if I – as the dad – had moved away to live with a sugar momma I’d be collecting alimony and getting a COLA increase from the mom raising my child alone. But at least you have an end in sight when your kids turn eighteen. Just grit your teeth and hang in there until then. They grow up quicker than you would think.
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