Relocating

Parental Alienation, Malicious Mother Syndrome, dealing with the ex, and various other non-legal concerns throughout the process.

Re: Relocating

Unread postby hoosier_dad » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:19 am

OrigamiDragon wrote:Furthermore, she has filed yesterday to move in less than a month, what is the best timing for an objection? What do I do when she moves anyway?


One of your big arguments is the impact of switching schools and losing IEP services, so filing ASAP shows you want to prevent this impact. But success in the relocation hearing is also dependent on your move within the school boundaries.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby OrigamiDragon » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:35 pm

hoosier_dad wrote:
OrigamiDragon wrote:Furthermore, she has filed yesterday to move in less than a month, what is the best timing for an objection? What do I do when she moves anyway?


One of your big arguments is the impact of switching schools and losing IEP services, so filing ASAP shows you want to prevent this impact. But success in the relocation hearing is also dependent on your move within the school boundaries.


What are the proper steps of this objection process? I just write a letter I object and then she has to submit her full plea (rationale), then I respond, then trial?

Plan is to get the keys this evening and filing my intent form tomorrow morning.

If I object and she moves anyway then I file custody modification? If he stops attending school I make an emergency motion? I'm not clear how this plays out after the I move part.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby hoosier_dad » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:24 pm

You need to file your response with the clerk of court which will trigger a hearing. The notice sent to you via registered/certified mail should have been a copy of the notice she filed with the clerk of court. If you don't file anything with the court within 60 days you've legally approved of all aspects of the move.

I'll have to dig up the objection I filed and see if you just file the objection with no details and await the hearing, or if you need to specifically call out a request for custody change based on you living within the school boundaries.

If you could bring in evidence of her having already moved the children without court permission that would be huge.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby OrigamiDragon » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:02 pm

hoosier_dad wrote:You need to file your response with the clerk of court which will trigger a hearing. The notice sent to you via registered/certified mail should have been a copy of the notice she filed with the clerk of court. If you don't file anything with the court within 60 days you've legally approved of all aspects of the move.

I'll have to dig up the objection I filed and see if you just file the objection with no details and await the hearing, or if you need to specifically call out a request for custody change based on you living within the school boundaries.

If you could bring in evidence of her having already moved the children without court permission that would be huge.


Her notice is to move within 30 days, but still lists the full 60/90 rules in the form. Does that mean my timeline to respond *effectively* is reduced? My lawyer meeting is the 23rd and I won't get anything complicated from him before then.

On an aside everyone says dont let her get your goat, but how can I when she is harming our son just to be vindictive towards me. She is now canceling his counselor appointments (prescribed and jointly agreed needed) without notifying me.

Edit/Update: So what do I do if she moves him this Saturday, as my son seems to believe is happening? I have the keys and paperwork signed on a place in his school district now.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby hoosier_dad » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:51 am

OrigamiDragon wrote:Her notice is to move within 30 days, but still lists the full 60/90 rules in the form. Does that mean my timeline to respond *effectively* is reduced?

No, legally you still have 60 days to object to the relocation. IMO waiting could undermine your argument of impact on the child, but the lack of sufficient lead time on notification is on her not you.

OrigamiDragon wrote:Edit/Update: So what do I do if she moves him this Saturday, as my son seems to believe is happening? I have the keys and paperwork signed on a place in his school district now.

Generally the caselaw is pretty harsh on parents relocating without court permission, especially considering your ex knows the requirements and is ignoring them.

But this is the big question you need to go over with your attorney. Do you go all in and attempt to block the relocation coupled with a modification of custody, or do you drop the objections and move as close as possible to the new location to prevent the next move. Unfortunately the second option comes with significant negative impact on your son.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby OrigamiDragon » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:14 am

hoosier_dad wrote:
OrigamiDragon wrote:Her notice is to move within 30 days, but still lists the full 60/90 rules in the form. Does that mean my timeline to respond *effectively* is reduced?

No, legally you still have 60 days to object to the relocation. IMO waiting could undermine your argument of impact on the child, but the lack of sufficient lead time on notification is on her not you.

OrigamiDragon wrote:Edit/Update: So what do I do if she moves him this Saturday, as my son seems to believe is happening? I have the keys and paperwork signed on a place in his school district now.

Generally the caselaw is pretty harsh on parents relocating without court permission, especially considering your ex knows the requirements and is ignoring them.

But this is the big question you need to go over with your attorney. Do you go all in and attempt to block the relocation coupled with a modification of custody, or do you drop the objections and move as close as possible to the new location to prevent the next move. Unfortunately the second option comes with significant negative impact on your son.


When and how do I file my intent to move form? I am able to maintain both old and new residences on paper, though I plan to live in the latter immediately and could return if necessary.

Decidely the first option and lawyer is working on it but i need to know what he needs to know. Hypothetically, she would just move again, her stated reason was to recreate distance lost when I wanted to move into his school district. It's instantly messy now because she has filed first with a reaction to a filing I wasn't secured to make yet. I want to get custodial physical and at least 50/50. Now what?
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby steelmark » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:24 pm

What says your attorney on filing a TRO immediately keeping the child in his current school while the objection is decided? Like now.

You have residency in the current district now, so kiddo can stay in the school that is handling the IEP. Mom can move, and since it’s a nearby township, she can still get him to school without much trouble.

Your GAL leanings/hints and the IEP are your strongest points, but stopping the school change now with a TRO prevents this tug of war about to go down.

Get the brakes on this so you can deal with it, it’s my opinion that dealing with it after the school change will be a more uphill change for you.

Stop with the full custody talk. All you really want is for kiddo to stay in his school (minimize disruption/changes) and have access to both parents.

ETA: Had I not filed a TRO and my kids changed schools, I would have lost. Even if I were right at the end of the day, my GAL would not have forced the toothpaste back into the tube.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby OrigamiDragon » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:43 pm

steelmark wrote:What says your attorney on filing a TRO immediately keeping the child in his current school while the objection is decided? Like now.

You have residency in the current district now, so kiddo can stay in the school that is handling the IEP. Mom can move, and since it’s a nearby township, she can still get him to school without much trouble.

Your GAL leanings/hints and the IEP are your strongest points, but stopping the school change now with a TRO prevents this tug of war about to go down.

Get the brakes on this so you can deal with it, it’s my opinion that dealing with it after the school change will be a more uphill change for you.

Stop with the full custody talk. All you really want is for kiddo to stay in his school (minimize disruption/changes) and have access to both parents.

ETA: Had I not filed a TRO and my kids changed schools, I would have lost. Even if I were right at the end of the day, my GAL would not have forced the toothpaste back into the tube.


I don't know, I could ask, but on paper she hasn't done that yet as far as I know. Lawyer seemed to want to let her mess up since she has burned through many unfullfilled promises to cooperate with negative progress as I get more time with my son. We have joint legal, she has no legal ability to change his schools without my knowledge and my or the courts approval. I just see a pattern, and making plans for when he should be returning to school is a hint she is making moves behind the scenes. Also physical custodial parent in Indiana is not as significant as it may be elsewhere due to the legal custody split.

Her entire plea to the court has been a whine that any time or involvement I seek with my son's life constitutes harassment. Court gave her an ex parte that got dismissed and never gave it any credence since but she still clings to it with every interaction.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby hoosier_dad » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:00 pm

OrigamiDragon wrote:When and how do I file my intent to move form?

Unless your attorney has other ideas you should file immediately. You want to have clean hands in court, and arguing that your ex didn't follow the relocation time requirement is hard when you don't follow it either.

How you file should be simple for your attorney. The required data points are clear in the statutes, and you provide a copy to your ex via registered/certified mail. I'm assuming the notice your ex filed and copied to you provides an example.

I looked at my paperwork and I didn't file an objection to my ex's move, I simply filed for a modification of parenting time due to her move. This might be the approach your attorney will take. Your ex can move if she doesn't like being within x number of miles from you, but that is not a valid reason to relocate a child. Therefore it's fortunate for your son that you are moving into his school district so there isn't any impact on his school attendance and IEP plan. You'll take over weekly parenting time and make up the different in generous holiday and summer time.

In addition my attorney coupled the modification of parenting time filing with a request to combine all outstanding issues into a single hearing.

steelmark wrote:What says your attorney on filing a TRO immediately keeping the child in his current school while the objection is decided? Like now.

If Mom moves the child this weekend without court approval, the most likely outcome from a temp hearing is temp custody to Dad pending the final hearing. She is already restrained from moving so the TRO is not really necessary.

steelmark wrote:You have residency in the current district now

He doesn't yet, that's why the discussion about his own relocation notice. OP, how did your ex get wind of your move? That's a pretty big breach that should not have happened.
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Re: Relocating

Unread postby OrigamiDragon » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:42 pm

hoosier_dad wrote:
OrigamiDragon wrote:When and how do I file my intent to move form?

Unless your attorney has other ideas you should file immediately. You want to have clean hands in court, and arguing that your ex didn't follow the relocation time requirement is hard when you don't follow it either.

How you file should be simple for your attorney. The required data points are clear in the statutes, and you provide a copy to your ex via registered/certified mail. I'm assuming the notice your ex filed and copied to you provides an example.

I looked at my paperwork and I didn't file an objection to my ex's move, I simply filed for a modification of parenting time due to her move. This might be the approach your attorney will take. Your ex can move if she doesn't like being within x number of miles from you, but that is not a valid reason to relocate a child. Therefore it's fortunate for your son that you are moving into his school district so there isn't any impact on his school attendance and IEP plan. You'll take over weekly parenting time and make up the different in generous holiday and summer time.

In addition my attorney coupled the modification of parenting time filing with a request to combine all outstanding issues into a single hearing.

steelmark wrote:What says your attorney on filing a TRO immediately keeping the child in his current school while the objection is decided? Like now.

If Mom moves the child this weekend without court approval, the most likely outcome from a temp hearing is temp custody to Dad pending the final hearing. She is already restrained from moving so the TRO is not really necessary.

steelmark wrote:You have residency in the current district now

He doesn't yet, that's why the discussion about his own relocation notice. OP, how did your ex get wind of your move? That's a pretty big breach that should not have happened.


The breach was my fault. I was supposed to file on the Dec 18th, had a lease pending for the only available unit, but it was too close for anyone, especially my son for boundaries, so I requested the next available unit instead. Was told it would take a day so when we had to hash transportation plans for holiday exchange, I didn't hide it. She made a fuss, the office stalled for the holidays, I offered to compromise, she went crazy, I went back to business. There is a HC counselor in the mix judging us as an agent of the court who is critizing me for not pre-disclosing decisions like this so I wrongly felt secure in the knowledge that she has to go through the same process and I was only a day away from finishing my part. Obviously I was proven to show poor judgement but I hope not bad faith at least, which is mother's MO I've been hoarding the evidence of to advance the case.

Should I model your approach? I feel like moving 30 minutes away explicitly to make my son's relationship more difficult is grounds for a another modification towards at least 50/50 in it's own right so I need to object. She is teaching my son that proximity to his father is harm to her, how will that affect him? She literally is using the "he doesn't want to talk to you and I won't force him" garbage for a 5 year old... I have good reason to fight back as hard as possible.

Another note of summary. Been at this 2 years, negotiation always fails because she never follows through on her concessions. Considering how relatively fast I have gone from paper IPTG with zero actual to well beyond extended with joint legal, by pure force of the court, despite the court not reprimanding her for any misdeeds, hopefully can stand as objective evidence that I am on the whole doing right by my son.
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