Our Technological Revolution

Humor, philosophical, theoretical postions, judicial reform, rants, etc.

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:48 am

a dad wrote:To be clear, when I was talking about a ratio, I was not talking about a ratio of robots to people nor even the complete workforce. I was talking about human workers currently doing things machines can do compared to human workers fixing machines that have replaced people, regardless of how many machines we're talking about because in many cases one machine can replace multiple people. My ratio is jobs lost vs jobs gained, purely due to automation.

The humans fixing the machines will likely not be full time at one location, they'll be full time working for a robot manufacturing/fixing company that has them traveling to different locations to fix the machines, thereby servicing a greater number of machines than any one company runs.

There's also the jobs that won't necessarily be replaced soon, like R&D. But don't think most job can't get replaced eventually. The next Labor Secretary, Andrew Puzder, wants his hardees/Carls jr fast food restaurants run by machines, with zero human interaction, so changes toward automation may be welcome by the next administration. Even Carrier, who struck a deal to keep some jobs in the US, is looking to use the millions in taxpayer's money to help automate the Indiana jobs saved.

One obstacle for automation is the Unions, but so far they're unable to get a seat at the table when the next administration is cutting deals. They even get attacked for speaking up.



In my line of work I see one machine being installed that will directly take the job of 3 people, minimum, off the production line floor. 3 shifts a day, 5 days a week, one employee per shift, sometimes multiple per station depending on the application. That machine is built overseas in modular units to offer various capabilities for various products and assembled here. Most of the guys assembling the units are the service techs for the surrounding sales territory. Theres not that many of them. 12 or 15 guys that service the entire southeast region. The service itself on these machines is a lot of diagnosing the failed modular component and exchanging it, which in itself is a very friendly task suited to further future automation.

While the building and servicing of the machinery provides employment requiring a higher level skill set than catching a product coming out of a machine and putting it in a box the net effect is a lot of low wage/skill jobs being lost and a few higher wage / skill jobs being created.

"Adapt or die" isn't a humane philosophy.

"One obstacle for automation is the Unions, "

Yes, teachers unions being one of them. Education reform from top to bottom is critical.
User avatar
Fatheroffour
Moderator
 
Posts: 35827
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Top of the world

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby a dad » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:32 pm

'Made in the USA' is starting to lose its meaning.
User avatar
a dad
Moderator
 
Posts: 9062
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Trevor » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:56 pm

Whatever do you mean? Germany and Japan outsource their auto factories to the US.
"Personal density is directly proportional to temporal bandwidth."
Trevor
Moderator
 
Posts: 22941
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:55 pm

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby a dad » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:00 pm

'Made in the USA' implies you're supporting American workers, not imported machines that made the product like next year's Adidas.
User avatar
a dad
Moderator
 
Posts: 9062
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:49 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Mock Turtle » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:59 am

Maybe the slogan "Made in the USA" was created to help machines pass the Turing test here.
γού καvνοτ βε ας ςτοοpid ας Ι αm ηνλεςς γού Ηαvε βεεη ας ςmαρτ ας Ι ψας.
User avatar
Mock Turtle
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Θε Fορτρεςς oβ Σολιτυδε

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby hoosier_dad » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:33 am

My brother is an electrical engineer and works for an automation consulting firm. They create the automation systems as well as the controlling software. What they specialize in would hardly qualify as manufacturing robots, but they do perform functions on the manufacturing/assembly floor that reduce manual labor. These have included automated testing stations, labelers, packaging/taping stations. They have also created systems for one of the GM lines in the past.

The thing that always stuck out when we've talked about work is that these huge manufacturing companies outsource this type of work, and that it takes so few employees to create and setup these types of systems. My brother's shop is extremely small, less than 1/2 dozen employees with 3 primary engineers that do the bulk of the specialized work. And out of those 3 two are partners that spend considerable time on sales and account management. And yet this tiny shop with limited resources still contracts and successfully implements assembly line automation for companies as large and complex as GM.
User avatar
hoosier_dad
Moderator
 
Posts: 4702
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:02 am

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Trevor » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:23 pm

Our kids need to have a good college education. This is no longer optional.

The days of someone barely graduating high school and walking into a factory and getting a job with a salary that allows homeownership and putting 4 kids through college are over.

You can blame trade deals and regulations all you want, but it is consumer behavior as much as corporate greed that drives prices down and jobs offshore.
"Personal density is directly proportional to temporal bandwidth."
Trevor
Moderator
 
Posts: 22941
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:55 pm

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:15 pm

Actually, it can be argued that it's the legal framework of this nation that drives prices down and drives jobs offshore.

It's not like we're on the only possible path.
User avatar
Fatheroffour
Moderator
 
Posts: 35827
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:37 am
Location: Top of the world

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Mock Turtle » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:23 am

Trevor wrote:You can blame trade deals and regulations all you want, but it is consumer behavior as much as corporate greed that drives prices down and jobs offshore.
Sorry if I misunderstand. Who blames deals and regs? Didn't see anyone here say that.

And if I owned a corporation why would I want my prices low? If I was greedy I would want to sell my product at the highest price to the most people possible.
γού καvνοτ βε ας ςτοοpid ας Ι αm ηνλεςς γού Ηαvε βεεη ας ςmαρτ ας Ι ψας.
User avatar
Mock Turtle
1K+ Posts
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Θε Fορτρεςς oβ Σολιτυδε

Re: Our Technological Revolution

Unread postby Trevor » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:48 am

It's a common criticism that our trade deals and regs drive up our costs and therefore our prices when compared to those from, say, China. As a result of the walmartization of our economy we then have a race to the bottom with wages and prices in order to compete. If your prices are high, American consumers have demonstrated next to no national loyalty in the face of cheaper foreign products. It's going to be interesting to see how the free market fundamentalists and small gubmint conservatives twist themselves into pretzels when tariffs and bureaucracy are constructed to "level" the playing field.
"Personal density is directly proportional to temporal bandwidth."
Trevor
Moderator
 
Posts: 22941
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:55 pm

Previous

Return to Miscellany

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests