I'm gonna do something about this

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I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby RC611V » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:41 pm

Hey so I was talking with a woman the other day, told her my wife is moving out this weekend. She said, 'Is she taking the kids? I hope she is taking the kids...' and when I asked why, she said, 'Mom's are just better nurturers'.

I told her that is no different than saying black guys are better at basketball, white people are smarter, asians can't drive and mexicans don't have insurance or driver licenses. She said, 'Don't put words in my mouth Brandon' and I asked her if she wants her grandsons (she's about 55 and has grandkids who live in her house, with their parents - her daughter and son-in-law) to think they aren't able to be a parent as well as a woman just because they're a guy? Does she want her granddaughters to think they can't be a cop/fireman/engineer/scientist? Then whey would she want her son to think he can't be a parent just as capable as his future partner?

I'm sorta 'friends' with this lady and it drives me a little crazy cause she has a husband who met a hot young thing and left the family (kids were in late teens and adults) to marry her. She acts like it is awful and I suppose it is... but she has a mindset to train her kids that if a relationship goes bad, they have to leave the partner and the kids, which is really dumb. So she < edited > herself, basically.

So I started to look around after talking with her. I have found a few things about it on the internet.

http://www.balancingjane.com/2011/06/bi ... g-are.html

I feel like the members of this board who stick around and follow the ideology of it are on the 'front lines' of a fight in changing the way things work in our culture, and it is a fight just as important and pivotal as the civil rights movement/women's suffrage/abolishing of slavery/etc.

I think the most fundamental thing that needs to happen is a change of this idea that women are better nurturers. Changing legal outcomes is great and important and we gotta do it - men getting more custody rights than they have in the past is real important. But we also gotta change the ideas that we are not equal parents. We gotta do something about it. Even I sometimes think the only reason I have custody is 'cause my ex is a lazy pig. But dude, I gotta get that outta my head, I gotta help get it out of everybody else's head too.

I'm gonna start by reading more about this idea that women are better nurturers. I could be wrong, but in my view that is where it all starts. The article/blog I posted above doesn't have that idea so it was good. But I found this one that says it is a biological difference, and it is from a psychology website! Like, that doesn't mean it is more reputable, but I'm sure there are lots of people who will take it for truth if they read it from a place like that.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... gender-gap
Last edited by RC611V on Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby NewReality » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:45 pm

Listening to and trying to reason with women?
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby Mock Turtle » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:49 pm

NewReality wrote:Listening to and trying to reason with women?
And talking to one?
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby RC611V » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:58 pm

Yeah talking to women has gotten me in lots of trouble. Part of why my wife is moving out.

But anyway. I'm gonna do something about this. I don't know what, but something.

If anybody has some like, info or posts or articles, if anybody has done research on the 'biological difference' that makes women better nurturers, or research on debunking that idea, and if you guys know about it, please let me know.

I'm not saying that we aren't already doing something about it - we are. Like, every little step, every case, every stand made because of this site, The List, whatever it is that makes a dude wake up and realize he's a parent and doesn't have to give in to his wife, is a real important step.

I just think there has to be a way to do more, and I want to try.
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:31 pm

A definition of nurture is appropriate.

I would offer that there are likely differences in tge way men and women nurture. "Better" is only a difference in style.
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby WCD7399 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:11 am

General thoughts from the popluation are actually the LAST Thing to change on any social issue.
Social changes happen from a small few, then legally, then the general population catches on. Lets look at something like gay Marraige.
in 2000 Americans were largely against it. People thought it was wrong. A small minority spoke up. In 2004 - Americans were still against it - but the legal case against it was starting to turn. How could you legally deny a right to a group of people while granted it to others?
by 2012- Americans were still more split on it - but legally the tide had turned. today -Most americans support it and have no issue with it.

How does this relate to the subject at hand?
Right now -The general feeling among Americans is still moms get custody and are better parents. But legally, its already changed. Custody laws in all starts are gender neutral. Shared custody laws are in more and more states (and being introduced more states). And guys that do go to court, tend to win 50/50 more often then not. Changed the mind of 1 woman wont do anything.
Want change? Here is how
1 - PUSH your state to have shared custody laws. Presumption of 50/50 in custody. The arguments against it or weak and they really help everyone. (While feminist groups are against it - I once heard one feminist leader speak out for it saying "If you want the wage gap to close, you need to make sure employers see women as the same as men. To do that -You MUST make them see that men and women have equal responsibility at home, and to do that, you must have shared custody laws that show in a divorce - the man is just as responsible as the woman for the kid).

2- Encourage ANY and ALL dads you know that go thru a divorce to push for 50/50. You see it all the time- Guys come to this board assuming that they cant win and they will lose custody and need to settle for the best they can get. But when they fight -They often win.

As these things happen - And more and more guys have 50/50 - It will be seen as normal. And THEN the general populations mind will change.
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby RC611V » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:42 am

Same day I talked to the lady, I talked with my buddy. He said, 'If we get divorced, I'll move out of course, and I don't know how I'd handle not seeing the kids every day'.

I told him, you don't have move out bro, it doesn't have to go like the movies say. He said 'Every situation is different' but man that's just an excuse.

Thanks for the reply. We (me first) have to do something more, 'cause this is in Los Angeles man and it needs to change.

Gay marriage did it in a few years. We're stuck in the freakin' '50s or something with parenting roles.
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby Roy G Biv » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:25 pm

This is an interesting topic, I found a link

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/a ... k-same-way
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:36 pm

In the linked article the quoted scientist says this "Yes, we should, Eliot insisted. "There is almost nothing we do with our brains that is hard-wired. Every skill, attribute and personality trait is moulded by experience."

I dont think I agree on that, as well as other assertions, and will offer this as rebuttal evidence to consider.

http://www.livescience.com/47288-twin-s ... etics.html
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Re: I'm gonna do something about this

Unread postby Roy G Biv » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:46 pm

Do you think mothers are better at caring for young children then? That dads can't nurture as well? However you want to define it, including intuitive things for a lot of parents who care for their kids, like soothing when a baby cries; knowing the difference between the cries of pain, hunger, dirty diaper, being tired; learning or knowing how to hold a baby in a way that they are comfortable; how to give a bath without drowning the kids, making a mess, whatever else could go wrong; singing a lullaby, reading a book, tucking a kid into bed; preparing meals and feeding them to a kid; dressing a kid in clothes that match and are the right size and look 'cute'; telling a kid 'I love you' a lot and hugging and kissing them a lot and being affectionate.

Do you believe in the 'tender years doctrine'?
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