Cohabitating

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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby dad2grls » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:20 pm

nr552 wrote:Whoa.. hold on. Cohabitation, when proved/shown, is as if she were to remarry, which is grounds for ending SS. She won't be able to get it "turned back on" without some major magic in the court room, especially if you get it changed to "non-modifiable" with the termination of support. I believe he'll have a good case once he builds one with Baby Daddy #2 in the picture for 6 months+.


In my state at least, even if the ex remarries, and that marriage subsequently failed, the spouse who was formerly receiving support from spouse number #1 can and often does prevail in getting support reinstated from spouse #1 primarily in cases where the subsequent marriage was of short duration.

It would naturally follow that the same thing would occur for cohabitation- once the cohabitation ends, the former support receiving spouse can head back to court to modify and reinstate support as long as it is within the timeframe of the original support duration award, but of course this is something that may vary by state.

Easy enough to research case law for your state regarding this matter, when I search "divorce subsequent marriage fails support reinstatement" in my state I see this question has been asked tons of times, it's almost a standard paragraph on every law firm's site so it obviously comes up a lot.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby nr552 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:29 pm

Interesting...

Well, I played my cards right and got mine done ;)

I my case I got mine reduced to $zero... modifiable required a substantial change in circumstances (and the support level payment could not be "increased" above what I had be paying. After 2 years, and adding all of the other stuff to prove cohabitation was still happening... I was able to get it to be terminated/non-modifiable.

One solution for the OP, after going down that route-- possibly offer a compromise? File after 6 months-- $3k ... see if she would agree to an earlier termination date than the original order? Maybe another 6 months, then terminate/perm/non-modifiable, and she can forego all the BS in court.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby mgtowthatish » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:50 am

RonSwanson wrote:Hi all,

My ex's BF has moved in with her because they're expecting a child. To modify SS, do I contact her first to see if we can make an agreement outside of court, or should I just file an RFO asking to terminate/decrease without chatting with her first. We have a fairly reasonable co-parent relationship at this point, and don't want to mess that up unless necessary. In CA. TIA


Learn the statutes in California for proving cohabitation. Hire a private investigator to sit on their house for a few days and get photographic and video evidence. Before you do this though, you will need to show the PI what it is they need to prove. Take this to your attorney, or use unbundled legal services. You'll have all of the paperwork properly done and filed. The PI can serve your ex and you can get alimony terminated. Well worth the money, and I wouldn't care too much about the co-parent relationship being strained.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby BartSimpson » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am

Hire a private investigator to sit on their house for a few days and get photographic and video evidence. Before you do this though, you will need to show the PI what it is they need to prove
I know the statues for California, and most of the other jurisdictions.

Evidence of cohabitation cannot be achieved from outside the home. It is not a matter of living together, roommates do not make cohabitation, it is a matter of holding themselves out to the community as married.

Hiring a PI to sit on their house is a useless waste of money and energy.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby TJinCA » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 am

BartSimpson wrote:I know the statues for California, and most of the other jurisdictions.

Evidence of cohabitation cannot be achieved from outside the home. It is not a matter of living together, roommates do not make cohabitation, it is a matter of holding themselves out to the community as married.

Hiring a PI to sit on their house is a useless waste of money and energy.


Yeah, but roommates + pregnancy presents a pretty strong argument that they're cohabitating...
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby mgtowthatish » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 am

BartSimpson wrote:
Hiring a PI to sit on their house is a useless waste of money and energy.


There are cases in California where a PI's evidence caused the termination of alimony. A few hours of a PI's time has proven to be very valuable in my case and was not a waste of money or energy.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby dad2grls » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:02 pm

BartSimpson wrote:Evidence of cohabitation cannot be achieved from outside the home. It is not a matter of living together, roommates do not make cohabitation, it is a matter of holding themselves out to the community as married.


In the cases I've read where cohabitation is successfully proven, it was done because sufficient evidence is provided that they are co-mingling their finances and sharing their living expenses.

Not sure if a PI could be of assistance there but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

From what I've read, being pregnant and living together would not be sufficient evidence in most courts.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Trevor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:34 pm

mgtowthatish wrote:There are cases in California where a PI's evidence caused the termination of alimony. A few hours of a PI's time has proven to be very valuable in my case and was not a waste of money or energy.

dad2grls wrote:In the cases I've read where cohabitation is successfully proven, it was done because sufficient evidence is provided that they are co-mingling their finances and sharing their living expenses.

Pls cite the sources and specify what evidence was gleaned that convinced the court to stop alimony.
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby dad2grls » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:44 pm

Trevor wrote:Pls cite the sources and specify what evidence was gleaned that convinced the court to stop alimony.


Trevor I used to have folders full of case law and decisions on my computer that were relevant to my divorce, but I gradually deleted them when I longer needed them. Once spousal support terminated several years ago, I deleted all the relevant documents.

About the only stuff I have left in my "divorce" folder besides the Stipulation of Settlement and Divorce Judgement is case law defending against reinstatement of spousal support should the ex-spouse recipient become a "danger of becoming a public charge".

All I can tell you is that of the massive data I had researched and collected about "spousal support termination and cohabitation of the recipient in NY" most of it painted a picture that it is VERY difficult to terminate support in NY based only on the exwife living with an unrelated male. Financial interdependence must be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt and only a small handful of cases I read about were successful in this regard and those who prevailed supplied documentation of monthly home expenses being paid by both parties.

Edited to add

Went back to some old bookmarks.

Here's one where the husband prevailed and had alimony reduced but not terminated due to cohabitation.

https://casetext.com/case/hall-v-hall-40

Here's one that went back and forth from family court to at least 2 appeals courts one of which reversed an initial family court decision and terminated maintenance, but ultimately an upper appeals court found hat insufficient evidence was presented to stop maintenance and it was reinstated.

http://www.jdbar.com/Cases/Bliss/bliss.html

Here's a link to an article that has a boatload of caselaw and decisions from several states both for and against reducing maintenance when an ex spouse is cohabitating. Note that it specifically states that in NY a party must prove "holding out as husband and wife" AND sharing finances and because (at the time) there was not one single decision that could be referenced, other out of state cases were examined.

https://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/o ... 25128.html
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Re: Cohabitating

Unread postby Trevor » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:07 pm

But what was the key evidence? Seems a subpoena to the bank(s) to reveal joint accounts was required? Help us out here.
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