Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby lionel2013 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:43 pm

My Ex can become 100% disabled-- and she'll have little or no recourse to obtain any support from me. The judge explained that and more to her when she agreed, in court, with her attorney present, that she will not have the ability to come back later due to change or circumstances, etc.


dad2girls doesn't understand that if what he claimed were true, courts all over this country would be drowning in re-opened, re-litigated support cases, and the courts definitely don't want that -- they have enough fresh cases. Of course nobody can stop anyone from going back to court to try to get more after the terms of an MSA or a court decision were met, but unless, as you said, the support obligations were not met (arrearages), or the support obligations were ordered reviewable after X years, what is done is done.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby dad2grls » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:44 pm

lionel2013 wrote:dad2girls doesn't understand that if what he claimed were true, courts all over this country would be drowning in re-opened, re-litigated support cases, and the courts definitely don't want that


The courts may not want that but it won't prevent people from doing so, it's happened, and there are numerous cases cited in the links I provided. Most are unsuccessful but not all of them.

Sometimes retroactive support is ordered long after it's expired even if it was not modifiable- because at least in my state courts have the power to overturn divorce decrees simply because they don't want the support recipient to be funded by state coffers.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:00 pm

dad2grls wrote:.....at least in my state.....
What state might that be??

Tom
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby lionel2013 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Tom Kirkpatrick wrote:
dad2grls wrote:.....at least in my state.....
What state might that be??

Tom


Looks like NY, but it doesn't matter. Seems dad2 is even more paranoid than I am, he is cherry picking rare exceptions to the rule, which are already more complicated than the standard MSA-based court decision unencumbered by arrearages. I hope I am right and he is wrong.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby dad2grls » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 pm

lionel2013 wrote:
Tom Kirkpatrick wrote:
dad2grls wrote:.....at least in my state.....
What state might that be??

Tom


Looks like NY, but it doesn't matter. Seems dad2 is even more paranoid than I am, he is cherry picking rare exceptions to the rule, which are already more complicated than the standard MSA-based court decision unencumbered by arrearages. I hope I am right and he is wrong.


I'm referring to NY State, which has language written into the Domestic Relations Law that has allowed the courts to rarely award spousal support long after it's expired to prevent the recipient from becoming a public charge.

Yes I know the odds of being sued for more support after it's expired are extremely low, and the odds of the petitioner 1- getting a court to accept the petition and 2- ultimately finding in their favor are even lower, but it has happened.

So yes, call me paranoid but I am prepared for the possibility and I've got a digital folder on my computer full of opposing case law should I ever need it, which will remain at my disposal until she's either a) remarried b) dead or b) receiving social security benefits.

I sleep better knowing I've done my homework in advance of a test I hope never to take.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby nr552 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:49 pm

If you want to go worse case, better dig up cases involving women that have REMARRIED, the new husband dies, and then she goes back to REOPEN her SS case ... That's happened too... The chances of it being awarded--- nil, but there's still a chance, right?
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby lionel2013 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:01 pm

Yes I know the odds of being sued for more support after it's expired are extremely low, and the odds of the petitioner 1- getting a court to accept the petition and 2- ultimately finding in their favor are even lower, but it has happened.


I have to call you on this again, because even you yourself admit except for very special circumstances (not the boilerplate MSA with a fix termination date and no arrierages) this is a non-event, yet you spread false information.

So, please provide one relevant example where despite a well-written MSA or court decision in place, the court overturned earlier decision and awarded more alimony.

One solid example, please.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby nr552 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:47 pm

lionel2013 wrote:
My 8 years of support, ended after 3, had it terminated permanently 2 years after that.


The math doesn't add up here. How did you have an eight year support obligation "end after 3" and have it "terminated permanently" two years after that?



I did along post on this, and somehow it's gone. Anyway-- Had a 8 year SS agreement, got it reduced to $zero due to cohabitation (ex's attorney was going to fight me on that, and I presented all the evidence.. so we "agreed" on $zero support-- but modifiable, then 2 years later made that perm. non modifiable-- in agreement I would pay all out of pocket expenses for our S15.

I don't get CS from her, and she none from me-- only thing is $$ for arrears in CS I got into (didn't check my new job's paystub--- and she didn't say anything until 11 months went by).. Now paying her the finally payments (plus upped the $$ to basically get her to leave me alone and just agree to things-- it was cheaper than a court battle/attorney fees).. only ~$2400 to go.
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby dad2grls » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:54 pm

lionel2013 wrote:
Yes I know the odds of being sued for more support after it's expired are extremely low, and the odds of the petitioner 1- getting a court to accept the petition and 2- ultimately finding in their favor are even lower, but it has happened.


I have to call you on this again, because even you yourself admit except for very special circumstances (not the boilerplate MSA with a fix termination date and no arrierages) this is a non-event, yet you spread false information.

So, please provide one relevant example where despite a well-written MSA or court decision in place, the court overturned earlier decision and awarded more alimony.

One solid example, please.


Here's four of them.

The Domestic Relations Law makes separation agreements subject to the provisions of General Obligations Law §5-311, which decrees a separation agreement void if the result is that the spouse will "become incapable of self-support and therefore is likely to become one. NY Gen. Obl. Law §5-311. Even if an agreement, signed years ago, did not anticipate the wife's becoming a public charge, the New York courts have awarded maintenance when a former spouse is in substantial danger of becoming one. Lasky v. Lasky, 163 Misc 2d 859 (Sup. Ct. Westchester Cty. 1994), aff'd 216 AD2d 366 (2d Dept 1995)(awarding temporary maintenance eight years after the agreement was signed because the ex-wife's serious psychiatric condition and lack of employment made her a danger of becoming a public charge). In Curran v. Curran, 169 AD2d 975 (3d Dept 1991), an agreement which waived maintenance was not a bar to a temporary maintenance order when the recipient had become a public charge 11 years after the agreement was signed. See also Sass v. Sass, 276 AD2d 42 (2d Dept 2000)(ex-wife who was receiving public assistance was entitled to maintenance) and Guerriero v. Guerriero, 40 AD2d 684 (2d Dept 1972)(in describing an award of maintenance to a welfare recipient, the court said: "it is neither the parent's nor the public's [duty] to support her at this juncture, rather, it is the husband's").
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Re: Last Spousal Maintenance payment made - now what?

Unread postby nr552 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:25 pm

Maybe you should move out of the country--- might be your only hope ;)
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