Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

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Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Beatandtired » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:35 am

Youtube is full of people claiming Child Support is not part of the Judicial System, it's a private business operating under the executive branch, usually associated with the Attorney General and Department of Human Services paid for with with federal funding. (Separation of Powers)

That there is a pre-requisite of paternity being established before support can be instituted and the only way to do this is by contract and we MEN have not signed this contract and if we did it was under duress or fraudulently obtained making it void and nonenforceable.

When you get married did the Clerk of the Court provide you with a list of the consequences of Marriage? Did he warn you that if you had children and your wife divorced you that SHE would probably get the kids and you would have to pay child support for the next 20 years, that you could be thrown in jail, have your business and drivers license revoked, loose your passport and even have your hunting and fishing licenses revoked? If you had know that, would you have still gotten married and had kids? They should offer "child support Insurance" at the time you sign your wedding application paperwork.

They claim that the commissioners and magistrates who sign our orders have no legal authority to do so as they are subcontractors working for the child support enforcement agency, not judges working for the Judicial branch.

They claim that we have illegally been stripped of our right to trial by jury and due process. According to the constitution we cannot be thrown in jail, have our licenses rescinded or our passports made non-renewable without a trial by our peers.

They claim Attorneys (The American Bar Association) helped write and OK the Title 42 Chapter 7 Part D, and much of the child support enforcement rules and regulations which means that Attorneys DO NOT work for their client but answer to the Family "Courts" and Social Security Administration, so it is in their best interest not to "rock the boat". The attorneys, commissioners and clerks of family "Court" work for the child support enforcement agency and not their client in child support cases.

They claim, Child support is not for the best interest of the child, but to capture federal funding for the State which goes to pay the States bills some of which is the commissioners, magistrates, clerks of the "court" and family "court" law enforcement "contractors" PAYCHECKS. If they want to keep their jobs and continue being PAID, it's in their best interest to keep things the way that they are as child support is all about keeping the Federal Funding rolling in. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

As much as many of us hate our ex-wives, they are not the ones taking our money, it's the child support enforcement agency who is our real enemy when it comes to taking our hard earned dollars.

They site a handful of case law where people seem to have used some of this information with good results such as Larry Nelson of Rochester Minnesota Who "owed" $83,500 in back support. The Supreme court ruled in his favor saying that the meaning of "Care and Support" was unclear and could be interpreted in multiple ways. Larry was very involved in his children's lives, just not financially. - Google it.

Some of the information most often referred to is Title 42 Chapter 7 subchapter IV Part D, Division of Social Services Service Manuals, Your State Constitutions, The US Constitution and Declaration of Independence, The Omnibus Budget Act of 1993, Chapter 8 of the Child Support Enforcement program of the CRS Reports, handbook on child support enforcement, Child Support Glossary, State child support websites, office of child support enforcement websites and the Child Support FY Annual reports to congress that show this is nothing but a business to make money rather than to help our children.

So as Attorneys, what's your opinion on all of this? Is it BS or something to put in our quiver of tools?

I'm a proponent of taking care of my children. I love them with every bone in my body but I am vehemently opposed to answering to a robotic master that demands I pay an arbitrary amount of money on an arbitrary date with a repeating schedule for the next 20 years of my life without the Child Support Enforcement Agency having any actual idea of what condition my children are actually in and what their needs are. If everything is great in my kids lives, why would they need more money? What is a six year old going to do with $1000 a month? There are only so many Pokemon Cards they can purchase. Remember what a hard time Montgomery Brewster had spending $30 million in thirty days in the movie "Brewster's Millions"? That's similar to giving a five year old $5000! Why do they think a mother can better spend my money than I can? Prior to the divorce I had a nice College fund building for my daughters, now that money goes to nail polish and expensive hand bags. When it's my money that I work hard to earn, I am careful what I spend it on, When it is money given to you without working for it, it is often spent frivolously. Where is the accounting on how the money is spent?

The courts need to prove "Injury in Fact".
Where is the injury to my children for not receiving the Child Support Enforcement calculated amount of money according to the child support enforcement agencies schedule? Have they ever even met my kids? Do they grade my children on how well they are fed, what clothes are in their closets and what their grades are? Do they know my kids favorite color or what they want to be when they grow up?

My kids are in perfect health, have perfect grades, they have loads of friends, they take part in after school activities, they have no shortage of food, clothing and they are well sheltered. I take them on multiple vacations every year and there is no shortage of love in my household. I have child support enforcement calculated arrears of $27,000. What would my happy, well educated, well fed comfortable children do with an extra $27,000?
Buy more toys? They already have most everything they want, buy more food? They'd grow fat, buy more clothing? The closets and drawers are already overflowing. Maybe they could blow it on a world cruise on a yacht with their mother for a month???

Compare my living situation to that of my ex-wife? She has a car a house, a job and food. What would she do with an extra $27,000? As I said, the kids have plenty of food, clothing and neighborhood friends at her house as well.

Help me understand something that makes no sense??? Why is our government doing this to us and is any of the info I listed above worth pursuing or all just a waste of time, or should I just bend over and accept it, that the Child Support Enforcement Agency is above the law and I need to do as they say?
Last edited by Beatandtired on Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby BartSimpson » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:40 am

No merit.

It is entirely constitutional and legal.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Trevor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:13 am

And we're volunteers, not attys.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 am

Ask Wesley Snipes.

Why is my government doing this to us


Remember that thought next time you hear those vapid empty patriotic praises of how wonderful our system is.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:33 am

BartSimpson wrote:No merit.

It is entirely constitutional and legal.


Yep.

Anything can be declared constitutional as long as those in power say it is, regardless of what the plain text we can all read says.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Cheatinganddivorce » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:24 pm

When you had unprotected sex with someone, you indirectly signed a contract that whatever came as a result of that interaction, you would be responsible for its wellbeing. If your relationship ends, then you don’t suddenly get to renege on that contract.

It angers me to see Dads trying to get away with paying as little as possible - I’m sorry, that’s YOUR CHILD! I’m many terrible things, but I’m not going to leave my ex or my child in a bad situation.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:45 pm

Beatandtired wrote:They should offer "child support Insurance" at the time you sign your wedding application paperwork.
Interesting idea.

I wonder if Lloyd's of London would cover something like that?? From what I've heard, they insure anything. The only question is, "Could you afford the premiums??"

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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby lionel2013 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:34 pm

It angers me to see Dads trying to get away with paying as little as possible - I’m sorry, that’s YOUR CHILD! I’m many terrible things, but I’m not going to leave my ex or my child in a bad situation.


No, you are wrong about this, or maybe partly right. Paying child support, in general, is the right thing to do, but paying too much CS which gets spent by the receiving spouse with zero accountability is wrong, dead wrong. Depending on the state of residence and your income you can end up paying thousands of dollars per month in CS for only one child. I would argue that is wrong - no child requires that much money to support unless they have very special needs.
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby TJinCA » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Calls to mind the immortal wisdom of Kanye...

Eighteen years, eighteen years
She got one of yo kids got you for 18 years

I know somebody paying child support for one of his kids
His baby momma's car and crib is bigger than his
You will see him on TV, Any Given Sunday
Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai

She was spose to buy ya shorty TYCO with ya money
She went to the doctor got lipo with ya money
She walking around looking like Michael with ya money
Should of got that insured got GEICO for ya money

If you ain't no punk holla We Want Prenup
We want prenup!, yeah
It's something that you need to have
'Cause when she leave yo < hindquarters > she gone leave with half
Eighteen years, eighteen years
And on her eighteenth birthday he found out it wasn't his...
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Re: Fighting Child Support as Unconstitutional - Any Merit?

Unread postby Beatandtired » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:03 pm

It angers me to see Dads trying to get away with paying as little as possible - I’m sorry, that’s YOUR CHILD! I’m many terrible things, but I’m not going to leave my ex or my child in a bad situation.


Did I say ANYTHING about leaving my child in a bad situation? I said "they are happy, healthy, get great grades, have every toy on the planet, have lots of friends and take part in after school activities." I ask them all the time if there is anything lacking in their lives and it's usually nothing more than a few Pokemon cards or Nerf guns. I've got three rooms and a garage full of toys.

Please let me know what they don't have and I'll jump right on it. Kids don't need a lot of money, they need love, education, food, clothing, healthcare and friends. My kids have all that. Even at the house where the woman who birthed them lives, they have everything they need and more.

So you're all for paying support, What do you think is the appropriate amount per kid? Should it be exactly the same each and every month? In real life, some months are more expensive than others. Maybe junior joins band and you need to buy him or her a saxaphone, maybe curly sue needs $1200 to go on a class trip, But they sure as hell don't need a new musical instrument and expensive class trip every month.

Last time I checked there was no Law about how much Married people have to spend on their kids each month.

If a kids is happy, healthy, getting good grades and has friends, what else do they need? You know the old saying, Money does not buy happiness.

Also, you seem to be placing absolutely no responsibility on the mother. It's 2017 my brother. Woman's lib kicked in back in the 60's. Both Mom and Dad can work these days.

I have my kids 50% of the time and I still manage to pay most of my bills on time and keep the kids happy. Why shouldn't a Mom, who only has to be a mom 50% of the time be expected to do the same?
Last edited by Beatandtired on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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