Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Lawyer?

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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Ireadthelist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:03 am

You understand what's at stake here, right?? Just get the ratings for both schools. How hard is that??

BTW - You've had more than a year to prepare for this situation. And now you find yourself pressed for time.

Tom


Tom; I may not have been clear; I understand exactly what the ratings of each school are. Mine is a D hers is a C. I`ve known this for three years. I did`nt move into a better district before now because I understood, from discussing with my lawyer and looking at other cases and reading this forum, that school rating should not be an issue. As I understood it, if a parent in an A district that did not have school district designation in final judgement was arguing to have district changed from their former spouses`s district that was, say, a C District, that alone was not enough to justify a judge changing the designation for school district to the other parent. So I`ve stayed in my district until now, because I like living where I do and its much less expensive than the a rated districts in my area.

I am perfectly fine with S5 going to school in former wife`s district- I just want him to be in the public school in her district, not homeschool. Now that she is trying to say that her home school is a better education than the C rated school in her district, so the judge should side with her and do what is in the best interest of the child, we told her and the judge that if the rating was an issue that I was willing to move to an A rated district immediately if judge or former wife agrees to change the designation to my district. Of course, my lawyer also pointed out, that, since homeschools are not rated as public schools are, there is no way to compare the quality of education he is receiving from the mother to the rating of a school-her quality of education could be an F rating or an A rating-there just is no standard and hence it should be a mute point to try to say her teaching abilities as an untrained teacher are better than the education provided by licenced and trained and full time teachers.

I`ve just been mulling over the idea of jumping the gun and saying, look judge, I moved to an A rated district. I`m already there. I made the sacrifice for s5, and if you just say the word and switch school designation to father, the child will be going to the best rated school in the county. I still have enough time to do this prior to next hearing...I just don`t want to do it unless I really have to. The school in her district is really just fine-I`ve talked to the teacher and admissions and researched the classes and feel s5 would do well there, and it has the advantage of being easier to get to for former wife. She is chronically late and I think that if judge rules for public school in her district there will be a lot less tardies and absences if the school is closer to her on her days she has him....
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:51 am

Ireadthelist wrote:I just don`t want to do it unless I really have to.
In this game, the vast majority of us have made lifestyle changes we didn't really "have to" do. But we made them anyway, and did so proactively, for the best interest of our kids. And yes, this includes following our ex's across state lines and across the country.

1) Will such a move at this late stage guarantee school choice?? No.

2) If you moved today (at this late stage), would the judge (or the other side) think you moved primarily to get school choice?? Probably.

.....the lawyers and the judge have asked for the rating of the school district for both of us.....
What's the strategy here?? What will be the likely outcome of this sham research??

Tom
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Ireadthelist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:40 pm

In this game, the vast majority of us have made lifestyle changes we didn't really "have to" do. But we made them anyway, and did so proactively, for the best interest of our kids. And yes, this includes following our ex's across state lines and across the country.

1) Will such a move at this late stage guarantee school choice?? No.

2) If you moved today (at this late stage), would the judge (or the other side) think you moved primarily to get school choice?? Probably.


Of course I`d be willing to if I knew it would be effective. I`d move to Alaska if I knew it would help my case. And I have no problem with the judge seeing the reason for me moving. My point to him is, look, oc has made an issue of the fact that the school s5 would go to is not in the best interest of the child since it is c rated. I heard their argument, and offered to move, no problem, to mute their point. They declined my offer. This demonstrates that the school rating or school itself is`nt the issue, the issue is that mother is inflexible and only want to homeschool-no other option. If I move preemptively, it could potentially make it that much easier for him to see how much I am willing to do to address any concerns OC has and do what is best for S5, even if it is an inconvenience and an expensive move for me.

What's the strategy here?? What will be the likely outcome of this sham research??

Tom


Agreed. We are just defending against the sham research. I thought the judge would see right through the sham, but he did`nt so far. So I`m just trying to do all I can to play the drum he is telling me to play-regardless of whether it is logical- to get the result that is best for s5-going to public school instead of homeschool.
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:31 pm

$64 Q: In specific terms, what is the scope of so-called "school ratings??" In addition to academics, what else does it cover?? Stated directly, what do school ratings not cover??

IMHO - I think a lot of your argument needs to focus on that "what else" component.

Tom
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Ireadthelist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:16 pm

$64 Q: In specific terms, what is the scope of so-called "school ratings??" In addition to academics, what else does it cover?? Stated directly, what do school ratings not cover??

IMHO - I think a lot of your argument needs to focus on that "what else" component.

Tom


Interesting. I looked up the criteria, and there are eleven components. The most concise overview I found was here-

http://schoolgrades.fldoe.org/pdf/1617/ ... view17.pdf

It seems pretty comprehensive. I mean, you could poke some holes in the fact that they don`t measure some intangibles, but how would you measure those accurately? Perhaps I could say it does`nt accurately measure those kids with involved parents that help them with their homework and stay on top of raising them- outliers in each class in those lower grade C, D, AND F schools- and the grade is not as relative for a kid who has that input as my s5 does because he is going to be not only learning more than those other kids and staying on top of things in school, but he is going to be curious outside of school as well and learning on his own as he is now. So the rating does`nt cover those outliers accurately, they are just a blip on the radar. To some degree, the quality of an education depends on parental involvement, Is that the kind of thing you are suggesting, or something else?
Last edited by Ireadthelist on Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Trevor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:18 pm

Then there is the issue of all schools being equal for students...and the issue of a student in a D school with an engaged and supportive parent, compared to a kid with an apathetic parent in an A school.
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Ireadthelist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:23 pm

Postby Trevor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:18 pm

Then there is the issue of all schools being equal for students...and the issue of a student in a D school with an engaged and supportive parent, compared to a kid with an apathetic parent in an A school.


For sure. And I see no point in abandoning our C, D, AND F rated schools, running with our "qualified smart" kids to the A rated schools when we can. It`s not sustainable for the community and makes all of those lower performing schools that much worse, left with more and more parents that either have apethetic students or are apethetic themselves. But when the judge is asking in the hearing-so what`s the school rating for the school in each of your districts- and the lawyers are treating this like its normal to compare ratings- it`s like you are fighting this normal, accepted court practice ,in my county at least, of using these ratings like you are comparing houses on zillow or shopping for the best deal on a gallon of milk.
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby BartSimpson » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:50 pm

It is an easy appeal matter - equality clause of the 14th amendment. You have no control over the ranking or ratings of schools other than where you live - if the Court selects one school over the other, the Court is prejudicing where you live. This has a particular impact on the financially disadvantaged parent who cannot afford to live in the "good school district".

The school ranking differences, if examined closed, are tiny little fractions. Who will be interpreting this data? Who is going to be the expert on school rankings that establishes one school is better than another - because the idea of looking up and comparing numbers on a website seems a very unqualified forensic examination.

I'm just spit-balling here, but it has been established by science that the single greatest contributing factor of a child's education is parental involvement, and the smarter the parent the better - far, far more important that school ranking. So, should we give the parents an intelligence test and award educational decision making to the one with the higher IQ? Makes scientific sense to use parental intelligence rather than school ranking.
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Ireadthelist » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:34 pm

Latest Update Guys--

--The judge ruled on the contempt hearing, and said that the issue of contempt was denied. This despite the fact that final judgement made no provision for home school, and mother had filed a notice of intent with the state to enroll S5 in home school against my objections.

--Judge said that petitioner(me) needed to file a motion to grant ultimate decision making authority in regards to education. My lawyer did so. We set a new hearing date as soon as available.

--Original judge retired, and was replaced by a judge that was new to family law.

--Mother did not file any motion for relief, so she technically could not do what she did, which is call witnesses to testify on the merits of homeschooling vs public during this two hour hearing that my motion called for. Judge said that she recognized this point, when my lawyer objected to their testimony, but would allow those witnesses to testify and decide on the validity of their testimony later. We used case law to demonstrate that the judge could not make a ruling for homeschooling based on the fact that mother had not filed the appropriate motion-judge could only rule on whether father was to be given ultimate decision making authority in regards to education.

--Former wife used a retired teacher and a semi retired school sociologist to testify as to the effectiveness of her teaching with S5; my lawyer pointed out that these professionals were not indicating that S5 could not receive an equivalent or better education in public school, and they agreed he could receive at least as good an education in public school. My lawyer also pointed out that both of these witnesses were not aware of the parent`s time sharing plan, did not know the last name of the mother, and had never spoken with the father.

-My lawyer repeatedly made the point that allowing mother to home school would effectively shut the involved father, with equivalent decision making authority and parenting time, out of S5`s life. My lawyer effectively demonstrated the lack of communication in regards to school progress that the mother was exhibiting in her home school program, in direct violation of our final judgment.


Judge said she would review the information and make a ruling based on the presented evidence. She seemed fairly passive, and did not really give clear indication how she would rule, although she made a couple of comments that seemed to favor the logic my side was presenting...

I`ll keep you guys informed when I get a ruling...
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Re: Filing a motion on home school vs public -Prose or a Law

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:22 pm

Ireadthelist wrote:.....final judgement made no provision for home school.....
The judge tipped her hand. She's also giving legal advice from the bench - in your favor.

I trust you ordered a transcript. At your next hearing, you may need to hold the judge accountable for what she said.

Ireadthelist wrote:Judge said that petitioner(me) needed to file a motion to grant ultimate decision making authority in regards to education.
More legal advice from the bench - again, in your favor.

It sounds like the judge will likely grant such a motion.

Ireadthelist wrote:.....my lawyer objected to their testimony.....
Your attorney can think on his feet. He set the play in motion for what's to come. Specifically, his objection is "preserved" for the next hearing and beyond. Well done.

Not only is your attorney is on top of his game, you coached him well.

Tom
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