Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarriage

Your divorce and child custody agreements are final, get practical tips for moving on with your life after divorce.

Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:26 pm

hopeful dad wrote:.....there is no termination date for SS. We are still under temp orders.
In this day and age, alimony is a negotiable commodity. If ordered at all, alimony should be temporary, half of marriage length at most.

In your final order, you should have a non-modification clause and a termination date certain. It must never be her pension. The lone exception for modification would be if you lose your job or take a pay cut.

For that matter, for $50/mo you should simply buy her out. Money well spent. I would think a couple $G's would more than cover that - mere pocket change in this game.

Think of it this way: $50/mo is akin to a "reserved ruling," meaning alimony can be revisited at some future date post divorce. You'd be far better off having no alimony clause whatsoever. That way, alimony can't be revisited post divorce.

hopeful dad wrote:.....we dont have geography clause in the temp orders.
You need to seriously consider provisions like ROFR and geographic restriction in your decree.

Tom
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby quantum » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:15 pm

Temporary SS, as far as I am told, is based on the calculator. The rule of thumb is half the duration of the marriage and I have paid already 2 years out of 3.5 years. The order clearly says SS is terminated on marriage. She is married now so SS stops automatically.

Either I can ask my lawyer to get a confirmation through her lawyer and then formally agree via email to terminate the support.

Other, option is to file for modification. I am not sure if CS is also up for revision if I file for termination of SS. Is it?

You would think CS should remain at least the same because it is for the CS is actually to support the child. But the irony is, based on what I have read, CS could actually increase even when all other factors such as Custody, income remain same, due to the fact that her Tax filing status changes from Married Filing Jointly or Married Filing Separately - which puts her in higher tax bracket.

I am still debating what to do.

BTW, I have ROFR but not the geographic restriction. I will have to get that into my decree when the time comes
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:46 pm

hopeful dad wrote:Temporary SS, as far as I am told, is based on the calculator.
Calculator?? Have you seen it?? Have you done your own calculations??

hopeful dad wrote:The rule of thumb is half the duration of the marriage and I have paid already 2 years out of 3.5 years.
Unless she agrees otherwise, the alimony clock starts running the day divorce is finalized.

hopeful dad wrote:I am not sure if CS is also up for revision if I file for termination of SS. Is it?
It could be. Termination of alimony is considered a change in circumstance. Check state CS calculator. Crunch your numbers. Do your own calculations.

Check for marriage announcements in local newspapers.

hopeful dad wrote:.....Tax filing status.....
Get her to sign IRS Form 8332. You're entitled to your fair share of tax deductions.

hopeful dad wrote:I have ROFR but not the geographic restriction. I will have to get that into my decree when the time comes.
Start making a grocery list of what you want in your decree. You want a well-written, water-tight decree. Nothing is ever standard.

Tom
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby quantum » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:21 pm

Thanks Tom

How is the child support calculated when form 8332 is used?

When I claim the child alternate year, my tax obligation decreases so my CS increases. My CS obligation will not be same every year. I pay more in the year I claim our child and I pay less in the year she claims the child.

In the current order, she always claim the child and I am single. This is the reason I pay less child support, as per my attorney and it is a wash and there is no added benefit in the child for taxes every alternate year

Outis had told me few months ago during last modification, in that case CS should be average of the two which make sense. Is that how CS is fixed.

I played with state calculator. (This is not accurate as the disso used in court. The disso used by court always come with higher numbers). My income has increased less than 2% since last support, I used her last numbers. I am sure her increase could be larger.

If I modify now, I will be paying 88 dollars less than what I am paying now(CS and SS combined). The modification may cost around 1 K if she doesn't cooperate. I think it is worth to get ball rolling considering I will have an opportunity to claim the child every alternate year. Since this constitute significant change in circumstance, I will get the ball rolling. What do you think? Do I need to wait until next hearing/trial regarding finances or foreseeable issues such as school?

My concern now is school for which I have opened another thread

Thanks
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:36 pm

hopeful dad wrote:.....there is no added benefit in the child for taxes every alternate year......
That's not the case for most dads. You do whatever works best for you.

hopeful dad wrote:How is the child support calculated when form 8332 is used?
Unless your order is written differently, CS is not recalculated when Form 8332 comes into play. Instead, Form 8332 prevents NJ from invoking woman's prerogative by claiming your daughter on her taxes when it's your year to claim her.

hopeful dad wrote:.....I will have an opportunity to claim the child every alternate year.
If you don't get this locked in before divorce is finalized, you never will. NJ's gotta sign Form 8332.

hopeful dad wrote:Do I need to wait until next hearing/trial regarding finances or foreseeable issues such as school?
Like I said earlier: Start making a grocery list of what you want in your decree. You want a well-written, water-tight decree. Nothing is ever standard. In this game, there are no second chances.

BTW - You've been here long enough to know that decree preparation isn't the only thing, it's everything!!. Because when you wait 'til the 11th hour, mistakes get made.

Tom
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby quantum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:40 pm

Ok, regarding the Support, if I understand what everyone is saying, I should immediately get this modified immediately. Correct? This will also give me an opportunity to have a clause in the order to sign form 8332 every year as well.

My concerns to get this started were, I didn't want to stir the hornet's nest, don't know if there are any adverse impacts, and it is cheaper to bundle the issues.

A question tho, is it a good time to give my case to CS agency? I am told by my attorney to wait until I pay off my retroactive support amount as they could come after the interests. I have paid 14 Months and yet to pay for another 16 months.

Sure I will get started on the decree clauses. I don't know how a decree looks like. How long is a decree? What are the things that should go in to a decree? Are there any samples I can find anywhere? The most important ones to me are Geography restrictions, Move Away, International travel, no one else stepping into my role, vacation etc.

Who should write a decree? I remember atty telling we should let her new one to write because it will cost more for us to write. I assume that is not recommended here?
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:17 pm

hopeful dad wrote:Court orders are to obey and follow? Isn't it?
What recourse do you have when (not if) NJ refuses to "obey and follow??"

Litmus test - Is NJ "obeying and following" now??.....when you have an active court case and everybody's looking?? In other words, is she playing by the rules??.....or is she pushing the envelope at every opportunity??

Look into your crystal ball. You know her better than anyone. Do you think she'll "obey and follow" after divorce is finalized?? In other words, how do you think she'll behave post-divorce when no one's looking??

hopeful dad wrote:This will also give me an opportunity to have a clause in the order to sign form 8332 every year as well.
A clause.....?? What makes you think NJ will sign Form 8332 on alternate years once divorce is finalized?? And what recourse do you have when (not if) she refuses??

Bottom line: If you hope to get tax deductions on alternate years, NJ must sign Form 8332 before divorce is finalized.

hopeful dad wrote:I am still debating what to do.
Time for debating is running short, don't you think?? Instead, you should be doing extensive research. Leave no stone unturned. Keep asking questions 'til you get answers that work for you.

hopeful dad wrote:You would think CS should remain at least the same because.....
In this game, you must never "assume" anything. Start doing your calculations. Use a variety of financial scenarios.

hopeful dad wrote:.....I didn't want to stir the hornet's nest.....
Come hell or high water, if you expect to get anywhere, you hafta to step out of your comfort zone. You hafta be willing to push the envelope. And you hafta become even more willing to take risks. Because he who risks little gets little. That's how it works.

You get exactly one chance to get this right. Never lose sight of what's at stake.

Tom

hopeful dad wrote:A question tho, is it a good time to give my case to CS agency? I am told by my attorney to wait until I pay off my retroactive support amount as they could come after the interests. I have paid 14 Months and yet to pay for another 16 months.
Q: How are you paying CS now?? Who's keeping track of the CS you do pay?? Who's keeping track of the arrearage you're paying off??
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby quantum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:50 pm

My divorce is finalized status only. All the issues are still under court's jurisdiction, so I will make a case for signing 8332 in the next support modification which I will be initiating now. There is no automatic termination of spousal support, though the order says the spousal support is terminated on remarriage. So I will be requesting to terminating the SS and reevaluation of CS via motion.

As of now there is no recourse. The order says to both us to STFU and just focus on rising the kid and that's just what I am doing. If she doesn't want to STFU and keep the communications only related to child, I do not know what to do.

I am paying directly to her via bank transfer. So there is a trace. Arrearage is also defined in the order. X amount of dollars per month over the period of N months which I am also paying when I pay CS. So I am keeping track of the payments.
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:47 pm

hopeful dad wrote:My divorce is finalized status only.
Meaning?????.....everything's been settled??

hopeful dad wrote:There is no automatic termination of spousal support, though the order says the spousal support is terminated on remarriage.
No Gavron Warning??

hopeful dad wrote:The rule of thumb is half the duration of the marriage and I have paid already 2 years out of 3.5 years.
Are you trusting rule of thumb??

hopeful dad wrote:She is married now so SS stops automatically.
It takes a court order to terminate alimony. There's nothing automatic about it.

Q: Are you absolutely positive she's married?? Did she get married in the United States??

Tom
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Re: Idiot emailed again with the news of daughter's remarria

Unread postby quantum » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:53 am

Tom Kirkpatrick wrote:Meaning?????.....everything's been settled??


Only custody and support. Finances isn't settled.

Tom Kirkpatrick wrote:No Gavron Warning??


No gavron in temp orders. Now she is married any way time to terminate

Tom Kirkpatrick wrote:Q: Are you absolutely positive she's married?? Did she get married in the United States??


Yes i am positive. Those pictures of pigs exchanging garland can only be of wedding! Seem like they got married in our 'church' here locally.
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