Noob looking for advice

Tips on divorce for men considering or starting the divorce process. Get marriage separation tips for men in this divorce forum and child custody forum.

Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby massdad1234 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:50 am

OP - you are going to drive yourself mad with that thinking. She just hates you.

We went to couples therapy (mandated by me mind you, not the courts) and she essentially used that as another platform to confess my sins. She wasn't interested in putting in the work on herself nor the relationship, thus I knew I was going to file for divorce. Her cheating only let me know I didn't have to wait any longer to get the ball rolling as there was other major life changing things going on in her life (family tragedy).

She is going back and forth as she is trying to control you and the narrative. You need to stop thinking your the center of your STBX's universe.

The sooner you treat this as a business transaction - regardless of state, you two will have to come to agreements of some sorts - and move on with your life. You will be one of MANY that comes here swearing "you don't understand my wife is _____ and I won't be convinced by anyone other than a Dr and even then I might still believe she is ____"

I went to therapy hoping to find out what _____ was, she just hates me.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby Fatheroffour » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:51 am

FWIW, In Georgia, joint custody is pretty much the norm. However, joint and 50/50 are not the same thing.

With joint custody, both parents will have the right to receive all the information and paperwork concerning medical, educational, religious and extracurricular activities and participate in decisions concerning those activities.

The parenting plan should identify which parent has final decision making authority in each of those areas or a method of resolution should the parents disagree.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby Trevor » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:22 pm

HaltAndCatchFire wrote:You must demonstrate that both parties can communicate and cooperate well enough to co-parent for a judge to award joint custody (Urquhart v. Urquhart, 2000).

This has always irked me because if the mother blocks successfully your efforts to communicate and cooperate, she wins. OP needs to document well his efforts to communicate and cooperate, and the mother's failure to do so (maliciously or otherwise) in order to give the judge the full picture.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby flyboy0317 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:29 pm

HaltAndCatchFire wrote:My notes:

In order to enforce Georgia's policy favoring shared rights and responsibilities between parents, the trial court must give "due consideration" to the feasibility of a joint custody arrangement. Baldwin v. Baldwin, 265 Ga. 465, 458 S.E.2d 126 (1995); OCGA § 19-9-6(1).

You must demonstrate that both parties can communicate and cooperate well enough to co-parent for a judge to award joint custody (Urquhart v. Urquhart, 2000).

Use scholar.google.com to look up the case details.

Make sure you're using the correct phrasing. Georgia uses custodial parent and non-custodial parent. As I understand it, sole custody means the Court has determined the other party to be unfit as a parent. Fo4 may be able to provide more insight around your custody questions, as his ex has EOW parenting time. I believe that was determined by a judge.



Thanks for that Halt, i will definitely try to look that up....

And thanks Fo4 for that as well....
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby flyboy0317 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:29 pm

massdad1234 wrote:OP - you are going to drive yourself mad with that thinking. She just hates you.

We went to couples therapy (mandated by me mind you, not the courts) and she essentially used that as another platform to confess my sins. She wasn't interested in putting in the work on herself nor the relationship, thus I knew I was going to file for divorce. Her cheating only let me know I didn't have to wait any longer to get the ball rolling as there was other major life changing things going on in her life (family tragedy).

She is going back and forth as she is trying to control you and the narrative. You need to stop thinking your the center of your STBX's universe.

The sooner you treat this as a business transaction - regardless of state, you two will have to come to agreements of some sorts - and move on with your life. You will be one of MANY that comes here swearing "you don't understand my wife is _____ and I won't be convinced by anyone other than a Dr and even then I might still believe she is ____"

I went to therapy hoping to find out what _____ was, she just hates me.


massdad, I appreciate you sharing your experience with your wife and I truly believe that you believe that she hates you. It may be the case and it may not be. I'm not sure why that is that mantra here though and that everyone is supposed to just submit to that line of thinking. I understand that once divorce has been filed and is the current state of affairs that naturally there will be hate. I know with my wife, if I file for divorce, it will be on with her. There will not be anything nice or mutual about it. She will bring out the big guns and try to ruin me, not because she hates me now, but she will hate me for abandoning her. So right now, that is not the case. She does not hate me in the sense that you would like me to believe. I will cite an example from the most recent events that just took place.

So, for the last week or so, house searching in GA has been the order of the day. Almost every day in fact... I even sent a message to the realtor that we have been in touch with to let him know that we wanted to come up this weekend to look at some houses. This was my wife's idea. My wife got Saturday off and was looking at furniture and all kinds of stuff. All lovie-dovie, playing nice, playing around, being fun, etc... That all ended last night. All because of something that happened between my boys, who are almost always fighting. And it involved giving the finger. I was not there, I was in the bedroom at the time, but my wife was there and she could not handle the situation and so my presence was requested. The issue was, whether or not my older son gave my younger son the finger. My younger one claims this all the time, but if either of them were going to give the finger, it would be the younger one, only because he has used my computer to take a video of himself and he was giving the finger! So, that aside, the older one is usually more well behaved, but he does have his moments. He shows me that he put up his ring finger and my wife right away says that she knows the difference, which I don't doubt, since she has given me the finger on numerous occasions. In any case, my older son actually admitted it and was starting to get upset and was on the verge of crying, because I know he felt bad. My wife proceeded to get angry because she felt that i was just trying to prove them (her and my younger son) wrong and did not believe them. She tells me to apologize or we are not going anywhere this weekend. I refuse, because I did nothing wrong. I simply had never seen which finger my older son says he was putting up, i.e. the ring finger. I go back to the bedroom and minutes later she comes in, in a rage, telling me i had better apologize or she's not going anywhere with me. I calmly replied that I was not going to apologize and she knocks a bunch of stuff off or a cabinet that we have and stuff goes flying all over; and all of it is my stuff of course. She then storms off into the kitchen, still yelling and complaining and then smashes a glass that she had been drinking out of in the sink. And that I will add, was all in front of my kids....

Now does that reaction sound normal to you? Was it reasonable based on what she was mad at me about? This is not hatred, it is a sickness and it does exist. People do have personality disorders and not every woman is just purely consumed with hatred of their spouse. I have talked to female friends, one in particular who is borderline, and she agrees that this is not normal and that there is something wrong with her. Another female friend, who is herself separated and going through a divorce, that agrees too, that she is not right in the head. I don't really understand all this pushing on the hate thing, because although it may be the most common thread with everyone, it is not the only one. A woman does not go from being all loving and affectionate and playful etc., to being all-out psychotic like that, for very little reason and start breaking things and throwing sh*t on the floor. So, I ask you, is that how it was with your ex? Did she act like that, all normal and nothing setting her off to one little thing like that just causing her to erupt? Because I don't believe that is the case with everyone.

I came on this board looking for help with my issues with my wife which are different from everybody else's, yet I am being told constantly to ignore everything that i have been through and suffered through and just accept that my wife hates me and that's all it is? Rubbish, plain and simple.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby massdad1234 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:35 pm

you haven't described anything that leads me to believe she has no emotional intelligence and hates you. Your situation isn't unique. Even if she has a mental illness, she would have just as much right to your kids as you. I too thought, hmmmm if she has something, I can work with that, I can support that, I can help get through that, its logical no? let me be clear, your ex sounds EXACTLY like my ex. She would lash out, in the moment, blame others yada yada yada, but there was always a reason. And then there moments of clarity where you could look at and say, see! she has lucid moments, which means she has something and if we get her help/medication etc, she would be that way all the time.

You're free to choose your own actions, just passing on some advice. Because she broke some stuff, created drama, threatened you and then broke something in an immature childish rant proves nothing.

Good luck, but you would be in the extreme minority if your STBX was actually diagnosed with something.
Last edited by massdad1234 on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby flyboy0317 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:36 pm

Trevor wrote:
HaltAndCatchFire wrote:You must demonstrate that both parties can communicate and cooperate well enough to co-parent for a judge to award joint custody (Urquhart v. Urquhart, 2000).

This has always irked me because if the mother blocks successfully your efforts to communicate and cooperate, she wins. OP needs to document well his efforts to communicate and cooperate, and the mother's failure to do so (maliciously or otherwise) in order to give the judge the full picture.


Soooo, communicate and cooperate between the two spouses, is that what that means? I'm sure my wife would try everything to stifle my efforts, that's for sure....
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby BartSimpson » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:51 pm

Your thinking is irrational for two reasons:

1. This is the woman you elected to be the mother of your children - that DNA is something the Court cannot unravel. The time to decern her abilities and maternal instinct was before you made babies, so there is nothing you can do to remove her from the children - the Court will not entertain your complaints.

2. The children have a right to both parents, which supersedes any disorder you wish to assign to the various behaviors of the mother. Cluster B disorders are not grounds for custody restrictions on a parent, even with expert witness testimony. You must tie those behaviors to a failure to thrive.

3. We discourage the use of DSM terms here because it is a layman’s forum and those criteria only serve as a confirmational bias rabbit hole. You apply the same tactics and strategy regardless of the fact it is hate or your feelings that it is a disorder.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby afc » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Stop talking to your female friends (especially the one going through a divorce of her own) about how nuts your wife is.

_Nothing_ good can come of that.
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Re: Noob looking for advice

Unread postby flyboy0317 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:06 pm

I would beg to differ on your assertions.

BartSimpson wrote:Your thinking is irrational for two reasons:

1. This is the woman you elected to be the mother of your children - that DNA is something the Court cannot unravel. The time to decern her abilities and maternal instinct was before you made babies, so there is nothing you can do to remove her from the children - the Court will not entertain your complaints.


Hmmm, sooooo in other words, I should have known this right off the bat right? That's what you're saying? Like going to buy a car and knowing it was a lemon before I drove it off the lot? These tendencies did not manifest themselves in their current state until well into our relationship. Specifically about the time that our first son was born. There were outbursts in the first few years that we dated and after we married, but i chalked those up to exactly what many keep saying; she is immature, etc...

BartSimpson wrote:2. The children have a right to both parents, which supersedes any disorder you wish to assign to the various behaviors of the mother. Cluster B disorders are not grounds for custody restrictions on a parent, even with expert witness testimony. You must tie those behaviors to a failure to thrive.


You truly mistake my motives. I am not looking to be able to go to a judge and suggest that she should be hauled away in a straight-jacket and locked up in a mental institution and never see her kids again. I would have to be as unstable as she is or just a plain-old assh*le and I am neither. As far as being able to thrive, I have some basis for suggesting that she does not allow that. They have each failed a grade in school. This is mostly due to my wife allowing and in some instances, encouraging, them doing nothing but watching movies, videos, playing video games, etc... I would do this too, but I don't have to, my wife does it all. In the beginning when they started a grade where homework was assigned, I would be proactive in saying that they needed to start working on it soon after they got home and not wait until 8pm like my wife does and then they are too tired and don't want to do it anymore. They have had I don't know how many cavities between them, because she does not make them brush their teeth on a regular basis and sometimes for days. My younger son drinks nothing but sugary drinks and is given Coke quite frequently by both my wife and her mother, something I have always tried to discourage. At night when I am not home, they are allowed to stay up until all hours, watching YouTube on their iPads, with the TV on in the background and she just goes to bed. Again, we're talking about a 9 & 10 year old. There are many other things, and I realize that they don't amount to child abuse or anything so horrible, but in the end, who has the children's best interest in mind? Definitely not her.

BartSimpson wrote:3. We discourage the use of DSM terms here because it is a layman’s forum and those criteria only serve as a confirmational bias rabbit hole. You apply the same tactics and strategy regardless of the fact it is hate or your feelings that it is a disorder.


I understand this, but I cannot just describe my situation by saying my wife hates me, because that is not the case. I truly am not trying to diagnose her here or get that confirmation from anyone on this board. I am reading books about it and plan on starting to see (or at least talk to) a therapist, because I definitely need some help before I go off the deep end myself.

In the end, what I am trying to do is establish a pattern of behavior that is not normal. I have a Word document that is running in the neighborhood of 150+ pages of instances where my wife has behaved erratically, unpredictably and sometimes violently. And when I go through it, a very small part is devoted to our first years together- the majority of it has happened since our kids were born and that was in 2007. So the last 10 years I am dealing with this abnormal behavior and not in the first few years of our relationship. Naturally i would have been gone if I had seen this kind of insanity. I have hung in there because I am afraid for my kids. Like I said, I am not trying to have her barred from seeing her children, but I do not believe that she is a good influence on them and in fact is traumatizing them to some degree with her behavior. And it does not just happen when I am around, I know for a fact that it has happened while I am gone and that means she is raging at one or both of them, because my sons will call me while I am away.

My wife is going to come at me with both barrels if I file for divorce and she is going to try to paint me as the one to blame for everything. That's what blamers do. I will never say that I am without fault or not at all responsible, but surely I have not behaved in the ways my wife has, but that is what she will try to convince a judge/court of. So, I am doing my due diligence in preparing for such a fight, and that fight cannot be based on, "well my wife hates me....." Because that is not the truth or fact of the matter.
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