Strategy for upcoming trial

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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby dadforever » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Chicyn2001 wrote:Okay, maybe they wear several hats in MA. I've worked in multiple jurisdictions and I've never seen a probation officer that was trained to investigate a custody situation in any way, shape, or form. I'm not doubting you, it's just a foreign concept to me.


I can tell you that in my case I was totally opposed to having a probation officer talk to my daughter. This was for several reasons- first and foremost, I didn't want to put my daughter in that position. But I was also afraid that the probation officer would be totally clueless as to the subtleties of parental alienation. Everyone in the system assured me that they were highly trained in these matters (by everyone I mean my lawyer, the Judge, and the probation department). Turns out the probation officer was far worse than even I would have feared. She actually had dinner with my ex and her mother; and it even said that in the report. Of course she refused to meet with me.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby whatever_works » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:40 am

dadforever, I didn't know you had a probation officer talk to your children too. Did you ever read the state guidelines for doing this? I spoke to my lawyer 2 days ago, and he mentioned that there are guidelines for this process.

I will read the guidelines and make sure those were followed. My lawyer also told me that the PO who did this is a good guy but is kind of a doofus so he is not going to look like any expert on the witness stand. Lawyer also said that the judge would call him for testimony anyway. STBX filing a motion to get him as a witness is hard to argue with so I should save my time. He said that he did not agree or disagree to the motion so the OC is going to have to show up at the court. He said that the OC has been using similar tactics in the past so what goes around comes around.

I asked my lawyer if he recommends getting an expert of my own. He thinks that it is not needed.

The other thing I am thinking about is that my STBX brings a translator to court. I know that I need to play up my superdadness and not paint the mother bad. But I am up against a judge who thinks a mother should get the custody by default. Should I not point out that this mother cannot get any business done without a translator. How is she going to do any parenting? She told me to handle all the doctor and teacher appointments during our marriage because she failed to understand half the things that were said to her. She forwarded me half her emails from work to rewrite for grammar and intent (asking me to delete those since she was planning the divorce!). Does her lack of English skills and working with a translator in court not give me a distinct advantage in this case?
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby massdad1234 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:49 am

no, it does not. focus on yourself.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby dadforever » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:25 pm

My friend, listen to me I've been through this.

Of course your lawyer said another expert witness isn't necessary- these people are all in bed together!
Now look, it might not be worth the $$, I'm not denying that. Because such a witness is unlikely enough to turn your case in your favor. But its mandatory that you try and discredit the report and discredit the probation officer. I guarantee you that your attorney will resist this. He'll try all sorts of BS arguments trying to get you to shut up and take it. Trust me, this will happen. The question is, what are you going to do about it?

You see, it's going to be easy to discredit the report and discredit the officer. That's a given. But it's going to be hard to get your attorney on board with doing this. That's the issue.

On another note, have your read the Dr. Childress stuff? I highly recommend it. He also has letters that he has written to give to court officers. I'd suggest checking out his blog, getting one of the letters, and giving it to everyone involved in the case including the probation officer. I would also introduce at least one of them as evidence.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby whatever_works » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:02 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post, gentlemen.

@massdad, thanks for setting me straight.

@dadforever, I have seen some of Dr Childress' videos (directed to the child) and I understand the attachment theory that he talks about. I just looked up his website and am going through some of the articles and handouts. He mentions a lot of NPD mom and "victim child" dynamic which is what happened in my case. Unfortunately, I don't see things like these flying with this judge. My judge seems very opinionated. (I would like to sit in his courtroom if I can spare the time in the next two weeks.) I do agree with the sentiment expressed on this board and elsewhere that personality issues and parental alienation don't really work in courts. I think what might work is to take the high road, look and act like a great dad and talk about how you have helped your children and how you should be allowed to continue to do so. I will like my lawyer to hint at the mother's personality problems and mention the parental alienation etc and leave it at that.

As for my lawyer, he seems to be on my side. He said that he will take down the probation officer. I don't disagree with anything you said and thanks for the warning, but this guy has over 18 years of experience and he is "in a trial" at least once or twice a month. I will try to keep him aligned with my strategy but he seems to know what works and what doesn't. Only time will tell, but at this point, it looks like my lawyer is a good one. With the help of people on this board, I should be able to get 50/50.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby massdad1234 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:56 pm

ww - there is no ambiguity. Make sure he complies with exactly what your directive is.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby kamoto » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:20 pm

I post this for others with very young children. It is imperative upon you as a father to establish a relationship with a daughter as well as a son. And I'm not talking something superficial, but substantial. My daughter is the oldest, and I spent countless hours playing house, playing dolls, reading to her at bedtime, and taking her for dad/daughter yearly events such as Nutcracker and staying at a hotel after Nutcracker and walking the city streets to listen to carolers. I taught her how to play softball, and how to throw a football. We loved movies together and still do to this day. If you seek to build that relationship at a very young age, no matter what your EX tries, the bond can NOT be broken with girls. When my ex suggested primary custody to her 12 year old daughter, my daughters response was NO, she wants to see me at least half of every week. My daughter was my advocate and basically told her mom that anything else was unacceptable. At my recent trial where EX was seeking increase alimony, my daughter advocated for me and wrote a heartfelt letter to the judge on my behalf. As I introduced the letter in court, my ex attorney objected, and the judge paused while reading and overruled the objection.

I won't answer to how to turn around a child already 11 or older, as I'm not sure how I'd do that. I feel for you and the situation. What connects you most to your youngest? There has to be one thing. I turned my daughter on to Dexter the TV show, and this set her up for a career she is currently studying for. If you know your daughter, you know where her interests lie. Go after that interest and send texts/emails and converse on it. Shared interests are extremely powerful.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby dad2grls » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:31 pm

kamoto wrote:If you seek to build that relationship at a very young age, no matter what your EX tries, the bond can NOT be broken with girls.


The countless numbers of loving fathers who have had their sons and daughters torn out of their lives says otherwise.

Speaking from my own personal experience, when there's strong parental alienation on the part of the mother, including serving a bogus TOP to remove dad from the home and make him appear to be some sort of dangerous threat to her and the very impressionable young children who aren't old enough to know better, followed by supervised < parenting time > for months and then finally having a "part time" visitor their crazy uprooted lives who calls himself dad- that relationship is rarely if ever going to be the same, if it even survives at all. No matter how strong the bond was prior to everything going down.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby kamoto » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm

Yeah, you might be right. My son is a quiet guy, won't give an opinion on anything. My daughter had such a strong will at a very early age, her demeanor and confidence were probably unnerving to my ex. She told the ex once that if she was ever forced to share a house with a new dad and strange kids she would move in with her father. I thank god every day that my daughter has had my back as much as she has had her mothers back, and that she was the oldest. As you say, whole dynamic may have changed if the quiet one was the oldest.
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Re: Strategy for upcoming trial

Unread postby whatever_works » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:21 am

kamoto, I wish you good luck with your daughter. She seems like how my older girl was - a total daddy's girl. We have so many good memories together... video games, softball, reading, tennis, etc. It took my wife's mother to drive a wedge between us because my ex just could not do it. There is a special place in hell for the ex-MIL.

That is just how PA works. Alienating parent always gets help from a family member if the alienating parent is not close to the kid. Also, kids who are close to a parent are more likely to turn against that parent, so watch out.

Anyone who says you need to be close to your kids to eliminate the possibility of PA just doesn't know what they are talking about. I know you are trying to help. But that is not how it works. Sorry.

Older girl offered to call the cops on mom to help me. Younger girl was so affectionate with me for 3 whole years.
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