What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby grandet2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:20 pm

workdog3 wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:Legal fees are rarely awarded, and when fees are assigned, it is a token amount about equal to the initial retainer.

Divorce lawyers don't work on the speculation that fees will be awarded - opposing counsel is being paid now, before he does the work. Who is paying the wife's legal fees now?


When we physically separated after selling the house last June, she took approximately $90K out of one of our joint accounts and moved it into another of our joint accounts. That account's balance is now below $60K, partly due to legal fees and mostly due to her not working.


Keep track of the $$$ she is taking out please, you can put those on her side of the B/S. If you are not on the a/c issue subpoena to get statements,
get all the paperwork ready for your atty.

Manage Atty = telling him/her NO and telling him/her what you want done, do this at the very last moment.
Example: Morning court date, meet atty 1 hour before court and give him written guidelines as to how you want to proceed.

This is if you don't trust your atty, I don't trust anyone one of them any more.
Simple reason is that they (your atty and OC) probably spends more time together every week than you will ever in a month/year.

I treat my atty like a hired gun :mrgreen: , I give my atty written instructions on how to proceed, and then followup with a facetoface meeting.

Use excuses like, I am scared to do this, I am not sure if I should, why don't we try this first. Remember, push your agenda.

I found that atty's get together and negotiate a deal and they your atty will try to sell that to you. And in some cases some of us had our atty's sell us out.

So anytime your atty proposes something, always ask him/her why and bring it back here.
Last edited by grandet2 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby RockyCali » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:07 pm

A professional mentor of mine once told me that nobody cares as much about your career and your success as you do. You cannot expect others to carry this burden. This includes your attorney.

You should invest lots of your own time into learning about what is truly important in your case. When you do this, not only can your attorney's efforts be focused, but likewise your money.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby SweetJ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:19 am

grandet2 wrote:Keep track of the $$$ she is taking out please, you can put those on her side of the B/S. If you are not on the a/c issue subpoena to get statements,
get all the paperwork ready for your atty.

Manage Atty = telling him/her NO and telling him/her what you want done, do this at the very last moment.
Example: Morning court date, meet atty 1 hour before court and give him written guidelines as to how you want to proceed.

This is if you don't trust your atty, I don't trust anyone one of them any more.
Simple reason is that they (your atty and OC) probably spends more time together every week than you will ever in a month/year.

I treat my atty like a hired gun :mrgreen: , I give my atty written instructions on how to proceed, and then followup with a facetoface meeting.

Use excuses like, I am scared to do this, I am not sure if I should, why don't we try this first. Remember, push your agenda.

I found that atty's get together and negotiate a deal and they your atty will try to sell that to you. And in some cases some of us had our atty's sell us out.

So anytime your atty proposes something, always ask him/her why and bring it back here.


To this point, should I watch what I say to my attorney? I agree that these lawyers have built relationships and may feel free to disclose information to the OC about what I am or am not willing to do. I've already seen this in the business world where someone trying to broker a transaction between two parties will let on what he knows the other party would be willing to do.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby SweetJ » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:25 am

BartSimpson wrote:OK, then fees will not be awarded.

Her attorney knows this.


The attorney I interviewed yesterday told me there's a chance she does get awarded legal fees if it's taken to the judge. He certainly didn't make it sound like it's a long-shot like you're implying. Perhaps he disregarded the fact that she's got a decent amount in the bank.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby BartSimpson » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:26 pm

Your attorney should be scolded. Ask him how many times he has collected fees?
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby HaltAndCatchFire » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:50 am

Managing your attorney goes back to this foundational concept shared by many forum vets:

Always
Be
Closing

If you aren't already familiar with the origin of the quote, then watch this 8min clip from Glengarry Glen Ross: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4PE2hSqVnk [NSFW]

ABC means you should be on a trajectory for trial, even if 95% of divorces settle before trial. You want your counsel to know your hill to die on so they aren't spending time working out frivolous details or settlement options. It's like applying an email filter for your attorney so they know what to focus on when communicating with OC, and what gets routed to the spam folder.

Some tactics for ABC:
  • Serve discovery before your spouse has provided a response to the divorce petition. It doesn't matter if you are confident with what assets your wife has. The discovery phase is a clear message to OC that you are preparing for trial.
  • Depose your spouse early in the process so you can combat confabulation. Deposing your spouse is also another clear indicator to OC that you are preparing for trial.
  • Set a trial date before mediation. Attending mediation without having an incentive for your spouse to settle is a WOMBAT (waste of money, brains and time).
  • Seek a GAL/CE when your spouse is unwilling to negotiate 50/50 parenting (or step-up to that). It's a double edged sword, but if you need to address confabulation ("my husband never did anything for the kids"), then they can be an ally. Good thing you have your superdad parenting journal ready.
You always want to be ahead of your spouse and ready to execute the next step in confidence rather than giving them time to catch up.

Like massdad said, if your attorney disagrees with you, then instruct them to proceed.
The only way out is through.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby grandet2 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:49 am

BartSimpson wrote:Your attorney should be scolded. Ask him how many times he has collected fees?


Listen to Bart, I asked my 1st atty the same and initially I got a maybe, this was more of a cya answer.

My ex did not get a dime in atty fees or in alimony. We worked on showing that nj is capable of earning and paying her own. Judge imputed her on her last salary of $82k even though she was a sahm.
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:11 am

workdog3 wrote:What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"
You start by managing your case personally and proactively. But in order to successfully do that, you've gotta have a well-orchestrated game plan.

Tom
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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby spritom » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:24 pm

50% of an attorney's job is to be selling to new clients
So while there is awesome info that you can get from an initial consultation (and they're supposed to give you the "best" information they can)...they're selling.

And some (not sure how much), continue the up-sell after you're their client to increase the mo-nayyy. They're not supposed to, and I do believe that there are attorneys that don't up-sell. But I believe there's a bunch that do.

Manage Tip #47
* Doublecheck the big-decision goal/stuff with "The Collective"
Get the concepts of what and how things are currently being routed through courts and weigh in the odds yourself and compare that with what the attorney told you.

Manage Tip #61
* Don't use your attorney as an expensive therapist.
Don't bother telling them how tough things are and how sad you are and how [emotion] you feel. Use them as the hired-gun that they are and they (and their team) cross the t's and dot the i's for the court

Manage Tip #83
* Ask the attorney questions that you really want to have answered
If you ask an attorney a question, but it's not really necessary...the attorney might:
- 0.25 hours reading and "reviewing" your question
- 1.75 hours properly researching the law, case precedents, and such to "fully" answer your question
- 0.50 hours composing the right answer to you
....all at $325/hour
New to all this? Read The List
TAC (The Acronym List)
Short-short version of what to do

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Re: What does it mean to "Manage your attorney?"

Unread postby Timeflies » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:14 pm

Manage Atty = telling him/her NO and telling him/her what you want done, do this at the very last moment.
Example: Morning court date, meet atty 1 hour before court and give him written guidelines as to how you want to proceed.

This is if you don't trust your atty, I don't trust anyone one of them any more.
Simple reason is that they (your atty and OC) probably spends more time together every week than you will ever in a month/year.

I treat my atty like a hired gun :mrgreen: , I give my atty written instructions on how to proceed, and then followup with a facetoface meeting.

Use excuses like, I am scared to do this, I am not sure if I should, why don't we try this first. Remember, push your agenda.

I found that atty's get together and negotiate a deal and they your atty will try to sell that to you. And in some cases some of us had our atty's sell us out.

I have a close friend who is in the business and point blank has told me that this is true. The attorney's know what the outcome will be in an equitable distribution state. They know custody here in Florida is 50/50. So for the most part just take half of what was accrued during the marriage and split it in half. For the most part that is what the judge will do at trial.

So no need for hours of mediation or trial. But both attorney's know pay days are during trial and mediation. The attorney's know each other play golf, fish or have lunch together. And if they don't they see each other for years at the courthouse and become familiar acquaintances. They aren't going to step on the other's toes except for the show. The judge knows all this too. Us fools are the only naive part of the show.

For the most part this is a big production show using your money to put the show on. Don't let your attorney stretch this out. If mediation doesn't work set it for trial. Otherwise your funding an expensive dog and pony show.
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