Listen to this forum

Tips on divorce for men considering or starting the divorce process. Get marriage separation tips for men in this divorce forum and child custody forum.

Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby Optimist630 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:11 am

There are givers and takers in this world. I would hazard to guess that a lot of us found out that when you marry a taker there is a one-way flow of everything. Don't misinterpret though, "takers" will do nice things for people but in the end it's only to get something back.

I also ignored red flags. You don't want to be "judgemental" but going forward there are many things I will not overlook.

I think we all need to forgive ourselves. You aren't born knowing instinctively how to find the right mate. The key is to learn, and learn a lot from these things and use it going forward. Someone is going to get a very good meet someday, if that's the route we choose to go down again. I have had two close family members tell me that they are banning me from women for two years. I had set an initial one year ban already. There is one female for me to worry about and she stands about 42 inches tall.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby Chasbo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:20 pm

mystery99114 wrote:I did some reading on hypergamy. I get the concept. In my case, we were married almost 5 years, had a ½ yo, and she had an affair with a married guy from work who also had a toddler and a pregnant wife.
Maybe if she didn’t get pregnant she wouldn’t have told me…
The guy is broke. He’s in no way some kind of “alpha” personality; he was just in her ear every day for 12 weeks telling her she was the moon and the stars. As they say in the movies: “A moocher, a card cheat, a country golf hustler, a scumbag, chasing dentists for a few bucks. The guy was always broke. He always had a story. And somehow she could never turn him down. “ She got taken for a ride, but she wanted to get taken.
She has not shown any remorse for blowing up our family spectacularly and I quit looking for it.
Hang in there. Time helps perspective.



And that's why the red pill philosophy is simplistic and flawed. It's not just about money and muscles. Who knows what each individual daffy woman wants or respects. Some of them are just irredeemably dumb.

You can't account for their insanity. But as Marcus Aurelius would say, you can control your reaction to it. You always need to be ready to get rid of them. To stand on your own. To move on. Speak softly but carry a big stick. Then maybe you will get some peace going forward.

I have got to know many women since my divorce. A lot of them are selfish irresponsible idiots. You don't need training or testing to have kids and the results are abysmal. Maybe men aren't better. Maybe it's just people in general. But you need to be prepared.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby IrishGuy55555 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:47 pm

I had to chime in on this one. My ex didn't just toss a grenade into the family - she did the full scale nuclear first strike.

Years of drinking - even after being arrested for assault - until it was like living with a roommate that only snapped at me and our son. Laid off from work and decides to take a two-year vacation on unemployment (she claimed she "earned" the break). An attempted affair that I forgave. I then forgive her again when she again tried contacting the same guy.

Through it all I was just too afraid of change to do anything, but I kept telling her if the drinking didn't stop she would someday do something that couldn't be undone.

I finally started to grow a pair and laid down ultimatums about the drinking. Her response was to move to Missouri with her mom and mom's boyfriend to teach me a lesson about how tough life would be without her. A week later she hooks up with the mom's boyfriend and steals him away from her mom (yep - he's a classy guy jumping from mom to daughter). The pair I'd recently started growing dropped and I filed for divorce.

It sucked for our son trying to wrap his head around his mom shacking up with the guy he thought of as his grandfather. And his mom has had very little contact with him since because she can't understand why it's such a big deal for him to accept it.

The fun part is showing them just how "tough" life is without them. Nothing is more motivating than knowing that they are waiting for you to crumble. I still have a good career; I've gotten really good at handling a household, laundry, etc.; I've gotten to be a pretty decent cook (which my son is very happy about); I ran my first half marathon last year at 51 years old and am running a full marathon this year; and if I may say so myself I do a good job juggling family/work/social life. My son and I were always close but the past few years have been off the charts awesome. And while being much more cautious I've been seeing the same woman for almost two years and it is going well. There are good ones out there, and as a bonus our kids get along great. We take our kids hiking, canoeing, hit the local events, movies, and all that good stuff. There's nothing cooler than having teens that want to hang out with their parents.

Meanwhile my ex is shacked up with a creepy guy about twenty years her senior. He showers about once a year (not exaggerating - this guy isn't going to sneak up on anybody), he got his money by basically swindling the family of a former employer and he has both a son and brother on the national sex offender registry. A real prize but he puts a roof over her head and he puts up with her drinking. I'm praying his heart holds out for a long time. Those two lovebirds were made for each other.

Two lessons learned: When they throw the grenade into the family they also end up getting most of the blowback.

And nothing ticks them off more than living a good, happy life without them.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby massdad1234 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:27 pm

lets not forget, there are some idiots amongst our gender as well.

I think the point is, don't put up with the ish, not now, not ever. Make yourself happy, and if the person you think you want to be with can't do it on those terms, walk away. I refuse to be the provider of happiness and content for my significant other. My reluctance to stand firm on that is why I am where I am today. I got amazing children out of it, for that I am truly blessed, but I certainly can't point the finger, as rightfully so, 3 more point right back at me.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby lionel2013 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:10 pm

I had to chime in on this one. My ex didn't just toss a grenade into the family - she did the full scale nuclear first strike.


Wow ... What I went through is almost nothing compared to your story - stuff nightmares are made of. I think there aren't many people on this board who can beat your story. Your X is a real winner, a true champ, sir.

But I find it very refreshing to hear of another one who made it through divorce and came out of it better than before. Me - four years later, I survived the massive shock of betrayal, her filing, vascular surgery, the sale of our house, the divorce finalization, her moving 140 miles away (followed by more trips to the court for revised parenting time), one heart attack+surgery+months of cardiac rehab, and to top it off, getting laid off from my job last year. But, thank God, now I am

- healthy [knock on wood] ... as healthy as one can be after an MI
- my relationship with S12 is better than ever
- got re-married to a wonderful woman
- got a new job, a new house, a new car and new furniture ...

All in all I feel like I got a new lease on life, in way more than one respect. Sure, my finances took a severe blow, but that couldn't be helped, given that my X refused to work for the last five years before filing. Too late to fix that now - all I can do is do my best to keep my well-paying job.

In the meanwhile, my X was ... devastated to see her Mr. W dump her after two years, then shocked and amazed to see me get married to that particular woman [college sweetheart, she'd known about her for decades], and otherwise stuck in a quaint but small town in Western Illinois getting a degree in X-ray tech services and not really knowing where she will have to move next year when alimony terminates and she will have to look for a job [market which is already saturated in that field, according to her].

But the one person who really got the shaft in all this is our son - although he and I get together great, and according to X "he worships me" [her actual words], he ended up with a broken family, and so far hasn't really gotten over the divorce ...
Last edited by lionel2013 on Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whenever you think divorce is bad, remember there are worse things than divorce.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby IrishGuy55555 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:02 pm

Lionel2013: Sorry to hear your story, but I'm glad you've gotten to a better place now. I completely get it. I've been pulled back into court for stupid things that could have easily been settled with a little communication. Finances suck, but it is what it is. And I used to tell people that I got a "do over" with my life in my late forties and I intended to make the best of it. And my story could have been far worse. At least on some level my ex realized our son was better off with me and never fought custody so I have no complaints. And I can empathize about your son but the important thing is how close you two are. He worships you because you're being a good dad to him.

When my ex got therapy terminated I had one last talk with the therapist our family had worked with. Mainly it was about what happens next. My ex kept switching therapists because she didn't like them telling her what she needed to do repair things between her and our son. She wanted a therapist to "fix" our son so he would love and accept her no matter what she did - like a magic pill that would work in 2 hours. And she didn't like when each one told her that wasn't how it works. The last thing the therapist said was "She might not change at all and he will accept it and love her anyway. Or she may completely turn her life around and it will be too late and he will cut her out of his life when he turns eighteen. Either way it's out of your control - you've done everything you can. It's not up to you to fix it, and you don't have to feel responsible for the outcome."

Good advice. You can only do your part. You can't control the choices your ex makes, but you can keep making things better for your son by your own choices. My son was 12 when I got divorced and it was a big transition. Not enough sleep and too much worry at the beginning. But I knew how important the next six years would be and that I had to hold things together as best I could. He's almost 17 now and he has come a long way and adjusted really well. He's got a quick wit and we have a blast doing things together. He's a little more cynical and guarded with other people than I would have hoped for his age, but after what he's gone through I get it. The good thing is it keeps getting easier. So keep on the same track and your son will be fine.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby JimRockford » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:20 pm

IrishGuy55555 wrote: A week later she hooks up with the mom's boyfriend and steals him away from her mom (yep - he's a classy guy jumping from mom to daughter). why it's such a big deal for him to


She has some class, at least she didn't go on one of those mother/daughter porn sites. :mrgreen:
Deciding to go forward with a divorce is kind of like joining a brotherhood. However, it is a brotherhood that you really don't want to join.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby Optimist630 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:50 pm

I have spent a long time trying to figure out if there was someone else. I think I thought if there was it would make things easier. Some of you may be able to answer that question, whether it's any easier or not. My guess is it just brings up a whole different set of emotions. I think I just wanted more certainty in a world that seemed to have none. Now I realize I am the maker of certainty in my life.

What I'm coming to realize is all I can control is my karma. Let her worry about hers. Being out of the house the last few weeks and on my own, having that physical boundary, has helped quite a bit. Especially in terms of not taking her crap anymore.

For those in the midst of it still - there are times when it seems insurmountable but if you stare into that abyss and don't turn and run you will learn a lot about yourself. For me it all changed when I stopped fearing the unknown and simply trusted my ability to handle myself. In a sick way I began to embrace the situation. I figured it is always better to at least feel you are in a position of strength. Fake if til you make it. If a situation becomes unavoidable you may as well hit it head on. Let her be the deer in the headlights. If you can be the one behind the wheel of the car, all the better.

I will say I got off easy compared to some people here. I never really faced true crazy, mean-spirited and evil behavior. Just a whole lot of immaturity.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby lionel2013 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:19 pm

I think I thought if there was it would make things easier. Some of you may be able to answer that question, whether it's any easier or not. My guess is it just brings up a whole different set of emotions.


Yes, it is just a different set of emotions. My X, as many others who have been reported here, tested her market value before honing down on Mr. W. She basically went through her rolodex to see who was available / whom she could get. Was not at all a love affair or anything like that. She gave it a shot with a couple of guys, didn't work out, then she thought she got lucky with Mr. W., the romance started, then she filed. Then, two years later, W dumped her.

My emotions all along? Terrible. Awful. Shock and disbelief, tons of being in denial, not seeing the writing on the wall, hoping that she would not actually do it. But she did. She had a plan and she followed through, and it worked up to the point where Mr. W dumped her. That - she hadn't planned on.

I'm not making this up: she had a post it note on one of the kitchen cabinets on which she wrote "trust in the plan", for months before she filed. I asked her about it, she gave me an evasive answer, and I did not probe further because I had no idea she was determined to leave me. Totally clueless.

That was her plan to achieve her dreams, her happiness, without me. So far it hasn't exactly worked very well, and next year things could get real complicated, as she will have to get a job and I will not allow her to leave the state.

In the meanwhile, I need to take her back to court to force her to produce her W-2's. For some reason she has been refusing to do that, so I will have to file a motion to compel ...
Whenever you think divorce is bad, remember there are worse things than divorce.
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Re: Listen to this forum

Unread postby IrishGuy55555 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:58 pm

JimRockford wrote:IrishGuy55555 wrote: A week later she hooks up with the mom's boyfriend and steals him away from her mom (yep - he's a classy guy jumping from mom to daughter).


JimRockford wrote:She has some class, at least she didn't go on one of those mother/daughter porn sites.


That one made me chuckle. :lol: I don't know what the porn industry pays but this would probably kick her above the ridiculously low imputed income that was applied to her. Why earn it and put alimony in jeopardy? Plus the years from divorce have not been kind to her. I used to be required to accompany when she had < parenting time > with our son and the three of us were out to lunch a while back. The waiter took my order, then after finishing taking her order asked "And will that be with the 55+ discount?" At the time she was 44 and I was 50. To this day the waiter probably has no idea why I tipped him so well.

Optimist630 wrote: I think I thought if there was it would make things easier. Some of you may be able to answer that question, whether it's any easier or not. My guess is it just brings up a whole different set of emotions.


That's a hard one for me to answer. I caught my ex at the beginning of an affair that was completely unexpected. I actually got a Facebook message from the other guy's wife warning me, and at the time I just told my ex (then wife) about it because I was so oblivious that I figured the other guy's wife must be paranoid. Turned out she was right and that hit me pretty hard when the truth sunk in. But with me it was again her drinking that I think drove it. Neither my ex or I hardly ever drank when we first married - it didn't start with her until we were more than 10 years into the marriage. So this was just one of many bad choices that she made, and in honesty it was probably easier for me since I COULD use the drinking as an excuse to validate it to myself.

During the divorce I didn't really care one way or another if she was with someone else. My ex was a good mom when our son was little so it was hard to see her do a complete 180 degree turn, but it happened gradually over years which made things easier. But it took me a long time to realize that this was the new her and the person I knew was completely gone. The part that hit me the hardest was the callousness and rage from her. She was very mocking and vindictive during the divorce, and actually still is. Picking the one guy that her son would never condone and then choosing to live with him 600 miles from her son just blew me away. So with me it wasn't about her leaving for another man - especially since he isn't really much of a man anyway. It was that instead of doing things in the best interest of our son she would actually do things just to make my life more difficult even if it did indirectly hurt our son in the process. I can't imagine being in a position where revenge is more important to me than my son.
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