MA - Strategy and feedback

Tips on divorce for men considering or starting the divorce process. Get marriage separation tips for men in this divorce forum and child custody forum.

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby astrolink » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:11 pm

Where do you stand with custody at this point? What is your STBX's outlook on it?

Just know that the non-custodial parent is usually responsible for child support and almost always educational expenses to age 21. What kind of proof do you have of adultery? It is a major factor in MA when it comes to alimony.
“There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?”
astrolink
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:54 am

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby massdad1234 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:24 am

I haven't filed yet. I feel like finding out about Mr Wonderful is an opportunity to negotiate from a position of strength. I also believe the MR W is a married co-worker.

How can I leverage this to achieve my parenting/custody goals?
How should I play it? File now or give her more time to be distracted?
My strategy is to give best offer up front (honey) and if major terms aren't agreed to, bring the fire (vinegar) and radio silence until trial. I feel strongly that status quo should be a strong argument that things should stay as is, which is me in marital home with kids, her moving out. I'm assuming things will also get bumpy once things file so working on my DGAF now.
massdad1234
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby dadforever » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:12 am

I am from MA. If I had to do it all over, I would have moved to a different state before I got divorced. Is this possible for you? Have you read real world divorce? It's available for free, I strongly suggest you google and read it- I found it to be strikingly accurate,especially the MA chapter. There are Judges here that never rule in favor of Dads. There is no such thing as 50/50 custody here unless you can get your wife to voluntarily agree to it. There are no witnesses or evidence allowed in temp hearings here; they essentially decide your case.

Pm me if you'd like more details. Def don't file until your wife is working a w2 40 Hr traditional job- not the restaurant biz.

Edit to add-if you lose the temp hearing (which you will), she'll have status quo at trial, not you. Your position is one of extreme weakness right now, not strength.
dadforever
100+ Posts
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:11 am

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby massdad1234 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:08 pm

Any suggestions on being to introduce actual evidence of

Adultery
Status quo that shows me around the kids 90% for those that aren't in school.

agree it the temp hearing apparently seals it, maybe why she has found her a MR W?

I'm prepared to scorch the earth for the custody I want (selling everything, talking to employer about plans and moving in with parents) if that is what it takes.

I'm thinking that if I can file, contested, shoot for primary custody (what is the point for 50/50) and attempt to scare/buy her off by blowing up her little fanatasy life and hauling in as many people as I can to depose - starting with her and mr married w. I have nothing else to loose apparently, might as well go for the stars.
massdad1234
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby dadforever » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:22 pm

The court will not consider adultery as a factor in custody. If your wife is concerned about being embarrassed in court, you may have some leverage in negotiations. However, I believe those cases are the minority, and the leverage tends to be less than you would think. Bottom line is that her adultery will most likely be worthless to you.

As to status quo: in the temp hearing one party is going to get 90% of overnights and the other party is going to get eow screwjob. She'll argue that she works pt and you work ft, so she is already the primary caregiver. How will you overcome this argument without witnesses and evidence being allowed in the hearing that will last 5 minutes tops? You won't! The mediator will recommend she gets custody, then the judge will order it. Keep in mind you can also expect all kinds of BS accusations to be made; its SOP. By the time trial roles around in a year or two she will have ironclad status quo and you'll be broke..,.ask me how I know....

Here are some practical real world suggestions that I wish I had 5 year ago:

1. Read the book realworlddivirce; especially the chapter on MA. It's available for free and it's spot on. Realworlddivorce.com
2. Go to the court and watch as many hearings as you possibly can.
3. If at all possible, work out the marriage.
4. If not possible, move to another State.
5. If you absolutely insist on continuing this path, go into it with your eyes open. If the Judge never rules in favor of Dads or only does so in the face of extreme circumstances (mother is drug addict, criminal, etc), do you really think you are going to be the first to get a favorable ruling?
6. DO NOT file until she has a 40 Hr week w2 job.
7. Do not file until you gain an additional tactical advantage. Examples include criminal charges, she abandons the family home, she offers you full custody in writing in exchange for money (signed by her attorney).

Please consider carefully, this ain't no joke, brother.
dadforever
100+ Posts
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:11 am

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby dadforever » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:54 pm

excerpt from book:

The time between a lawsuit being filed and a trial being held can be 2-6 years in Massachusetts. Thus, as is common in other states with sluggish court systems, the state has a mechanism for de facto resolution of cases via temporary orders issued after brief hearings. A lawyer at a screening of the movie Divorce Corp. said that Massachusetts custody cases were typically over after just a few weeks, but only the lawyers and the judges knew it: “The mom gets a Temporary Order awarding her the house and the kids. The dad is cut back to every-other-weekend < parenting time >. We tell him that he can pay us to fight this case through the trial but in 20 years I can’t remember a case where a man was successful in overcoming that first order. We tell the woman that she has to keep paying us, but really at that point she could go pro se [representing herself].”


I know of exactly one case where the Dad won custody after losing the temp hearing. The wife attempted to have the Dad murdered. Still, the State declined to prosecute the mother, presumably in exchange for Dad getting custody and 'shutting up about it'. Even then he was never able to collect a dime in child support despite bringing the Mom to court 8x for contempt.

Let me give you an idea of what you are up against here in MA. I recently personally saw a case where Mom accused Dad of assaulting her. She then went into court and got the Judge to order supervised parenting time for Dad (the Judge obliged). Problem was, Dad had a body camera rolling during the time of the incident. Turns out, the camera proved that not only did Dad not assault Mom, but the reverse happened- Mom assaulted Dad. Of course Dads attorney argued that Mom should be arrested and prosecuted for assault (this was in criminal court), the court refused to prosecute her. Then Dads attorney argued that supervised parenting time should be reversed as it was ordered based on a false allegation in the first place. The Judge refused and I saw it with my own eyes.

I'm telling you, move if you can.
dadforever
100+ Posts
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:11 am

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby massdad1234 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:10 am

Sounds like tough sledding. My thoughts were, since it appears settling outside the divorce complex is my best bet. I guess there is really 2 options as I see if I have to file in MA, either she and I can work on a settlement or I scorch the earth:

- Sell house prior to filing (in my name only)
- Liquidate everything possible
- Quit my $100K job and move in with my parents to be able to be around full time (parents will have to deal with it)
- Temp restraining order?
- Hang out in court before hand and know my land
Has any MA dads seen any mothers removed with TRO?

Due to her anger issues, aggressive talk between her side action, I have concerns the length that they would go to keep my silence to protect myself and my children. She has raised her voice in the past, I have had to step in between her and the kids when she was overly aggressive in parenting and there might be a chance the next time she does it is in the company of my parents/family that can vouch for her aggressive tone and anger.
massdad1234
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby massdad1234 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:18 pm

So after more reflection, I am in the ABC mindset.

After reading posts on this forum my MO is to focus on this:

Start laying the foundation and work to negotiate a plan with the STBX where you can achieve your reasonable goals and walk away , if not friends, not enemies.

ABC!!
massdad1234
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:44 pm

massdad1234 wrote:Sell house prior to filing (in my name only)
B-4 you file, you need to grab all the cash you can. You're gonna need it to finance divorce.

!) Secure a line of credit.

2) Take out an equity loan.

massdad1234 wrote:.....move in with my parents.....
The marital residence is your soft underbelly. He who gets the house also gets the kids. Keep the house.

massdad1234 wrote:Quit my $100K job.....
Judges frown on this. Unless you lose your job through no fault of your own and establish a new status quo many months in advance of filing, your current wages will most likely be imputed.

massdad1234 wrote:Has any MA dads seen any mothers removed with TRO?
Is she violent?? Do you have documentation to back it up??.....like previous police reports??

Tom
Everyone is entitled to my opinion. - Maxine™
Tom Kirkpatrick
5K+ Posts
 
Posts: 7509
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Pacific NW

Re: MA - Strategy and feedback

Unread postby massdad1234 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:31 pm

Have two possible attorney's that I will be interviewing in the coming days while the stbx plays :lol: :lol: with Mr W

One has been in practice for over 37 years, is a litigator devoting 75% of their practice to litigation , the other has been in practice for 24 years and devotes 50% of their practice to litigation.

Question for the group, what types of questions should I be asking aside from explaining my situation? For those that had to go through a couple of lawyers before finding the right one, what type of script did you have for the consultation? If these 2 men don't pan out, will continue to look for more attorneys. I am in MA, which is notoriously hostile towards men, but for those that their spouse was the cheating one, how did leverage that as a bargaining chip? Not trying to make it the centerpiece.

Goals - minimum 50/50 custody with stbx, would like to get to a point where we are friends or at least friendly when at the same place together and swallow my pride when it benefits the kids. Prefer to negotiate a buy out/lump sum financial disbursement once custody has been locked in.

Retuning my DGAF meter.
massdad1234
500+ Posts
 
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:34 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Before and During Divorce Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DonnyBrook, Euronymous, Outis and 6 guests