Shared Legal and filing 299

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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby whatever_works » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:34 pm

Outis, I read the link you sent. I searched Google and read the second link with interest. But I am just not making the connection.

The document you linked - which is the first result on Google - switches to the term joint legal and uses that term throughout. It talks about what may or may not happen as a FAQ answer for prospective clients. Not the legal or strategic advice I am looking for. The second document is more applicable as it is the state's relevant legal section. However, it also talks about what the judges may or may not do with custody. Which is not the point.

The fact is that the judge is writing "shared physical custody" and contradicting himself by saying how much contact I can have - 78 nights + 14 nights in summer + a few holidays. It does not mean that I can now keep the children for a week and say that that is my interpretation of shared physical custody. Please help me understand how this is an advantage.

Tom, "Standing Order 2-99" is "Procedure for Submission and Disposition of Certain Post-Hearing Motions" in my state.

The order is signed by the judge but presumably a clerk must have typed it out.

My state uses the term "shared legal" in the statute. I am not aware of "joint legal" and its implications.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby whatever_works » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:38 pm

And not to defend my lawyer, but the guy says it seems like a clerical error. Don't I give him the benefit of the doubt? He may not be all that I want but considering my previous two lawyers, he is miles better. He has got me to this point from where my case was - in a really bad shape.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Outis » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:42 pm

Shared physical custody in particular carries with it substantial obligation for cooperation between the parents. Such an arrangement, by its nature, involves shared commitment to coordinate extensively a variety of the details of everyday life. E.E. Maccoby & R.H. Mnookin, Dividing the Child: Social and *183 Legal Dilemmas of Custody 217-227 (1992). Shared physical custody necessitates ongoing joint scheduling and provision for supervision and transportation of children between homes, schools, and youth activities. See, e.g., id. at 227 (discussing coordination by parents of rules for children in two households).


That reads, to me, like a roadmap to more time with a noncooperative ex.

I'll have to dig a little more later. I've been out seeing redwoods and currently waiting on my artery-clogging biscuits and gravy.

The specific impact and meaning may be in question, but it isn't something to dismiss as a clerical error just yet.

To your edit: let's do our due diligence. Maybe we can find some source documents, like legislation and case law, to support questions to your attorney - or at least give him a direction in which to look.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:13 pm

whatever_works wrote:.....the judge is writing "shared physical custody".....
In your jurisdiction, what do you think this should mean??

whatever_works wrote:.....and contradicting himself by saying how much contact I can have - 78 nights + 14 nights in summer + a few holidays.
It sounds to me like the judge is defining the constructs of shared physical; meaning generic EOW + a few extras to make it sound like you're getting more parenting time than you should.

Note judge's clever use of the term "contact." Evidently, it's not the same as parenting time. Have you been eliminated as a parent??

whatever_works wrote:My state uses the term "shared legal" in the statute.
What does this mean??

In terms of specific rights, responsibilities, and decision making, how does this apply to you??.....or does it??

whatever_works wrote:The order is signed by the judge but presumably a clerk must have typed it out.
The judge will sign anything that's put under his nose.

Have you compared the Order with official transcripts?? Are there discrepancies??

Tom
Last edited by Tom Kirkpatrick on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Outis » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:19 pm

Where physical custody is shared, the "best interest" calculus pertaining to removal is appreciably different from those situations that involve sole physical custody.


Mason v Coleman, 2006, same case previous citations were lifted from.

That's basically what I expected to see.

This leaves a lot of questions. What are those appreciable differences? What else is impacted? Is CS impacted? How does shared custody on a temp plan impact a trial and permanent order?

Most importantly, how is shared custody defined? What's the minimum threshold? Are you most definitely above that threshold?

I'd research as much as you can and have an understanding of these answers before approaching your attorney. He should be able to confirm where you're right and clarify where needed, as well as correct when wrong.

However, the fact that this is being dismissed as a clerical error is a red flag for me. Let's gather more information, clarify with the attorney, and go from there.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby whatever_works » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:32 pm

Tom,

The term "contact" was mine. As far as the term "shared physical custody" is concerned, it should mean nearly equal time with both parents. But like I said, the judge is giving grossly unequal time to the father. And if it does not go with the previous sentence, then I thought I would need to clarify.

I have not compared the order with transcripts. Should I get the court transcripts from that day and start noting down? As far as I remember there was no mention of shared physical. My lawyer probably mentioned shared legal as what I was seeking.

Outis,

Thanks to you I have found the site masscases. I will be searching for a few keywords and doing some reading on my own. I have my D10 for a while so I do need to spend time with her. It may go over to late next week. But it seems like there is a lot of research fodder on this website.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Outis » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:49 pm

Look at it as a process and not an event. It's time consuming and takes patience and diligence. You won't have your answers in 10 minutes, and it's not reasonable to think you might.

Then you have to consider if there's recent case law overriding information on a website somewhere.

Back to school shopping for me now.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Dadofonegreatson » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:54 pm

whatever_works wrote:Should I get the court transcripts from that day and start noting down?


Always get the transcripts if you can, lots of details that you may miss and plus it ensures the order written is accurate.
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby Tom Kirkpatrick » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:25 pm

whatever_works wrote: As far as the term "shared physical custody" is concerned, it should mean nearly equal time with both parents.
The parenting time you're getting, although not 50/50, is, for all intents and purposes, "shared."

whatever_works wrote:The term "contact" was mine.
Where did you hear that term??

Be careful of word usage. Before you know it, you'll have yourself believing what you say.

By definition: "Contact time" is for someone other than you. Additionally, you are not a "visitor." You are Dad. There's only one of you. You can't be replaced.

Tom
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Re: Shared Legal and filing 299

Unread postby whatever_works » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:32 am

Thanks guys. I will talk to the court tomorrow to get transcripts.
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